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Marantz 2230 Transformer Buzz

TellMeWhy

Active Member
Hi all. So my 2230 has developed a mechanical buzz from the transformer, loud enough to be heard at very near distances and quiet listening volumes. No noise is present in the audio. Am I right in thinking that it's likely to be loose through bolts in the transformer itself? Should I remove the transformer in order to tighten the four through bolts? If I can live with the buzz is there any potential damage by leaving it as is for the time being? Thanks in advance! Jon
 
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Any chance it's just the top metal cover vibrating?
There is usually a small strip of felt or rubber used as an isolation buffer between them.

Bob
 
Any chance it's just the top metal cover vibrating?
There is usually a small strip of felt or rubber used as an isolation buffer between them.

Bob
Hi Bob. Thanks for that. Do you mean the metal cover of the transformer itself? I tried putting some pressure on casing of the transformer and it doesn't affect the buzz. Tried tightening the through bolts but only one is really accessible without taking the block out...
 
Vibration noises are funny things that can drive you nuts. I would unscrew it from the chassis and see if it stops. If it really is inside, then you need to stop it from shorting a coil. How to do this is anybodies guess.

I have some ideas , but i am leaning towards it being outside the unit. I never took a cover off of one, but packing it with the "Great Stuff" silicone would be my answer, outside of something more drastic:biggrin:

Good luck.
 
Vibration noises are funny things that can drive you nuts. I would unscrew it from the chassis and see if it stops. If it really is inside, then you need to stop it from shorting a coil. How to do this is anybodies guess.

I have some ideas , but i am leaning towards it being outside the unit. I never took a cover off of one, but packing it with the "Great Stuff" silicone would be my answer, outside of something more drastic:biggrin:

Good luck.

Is it rusty ?
Also,just noticed your location-Germany?
If so then that's a whole 'nother can of worms with 50Hz 220 mains.


Bob
 
Is it rusty ?
Also,just noticed your location-Germany?
If so then that's a whole 'nother can of worms with 50Hz 220 mains.


Bob
Thanks Bob. It's very clean actually (no trace of rust). Yes I'm in Germany on 220v... Could it be the mains filter caps? Is it really safe to fill the transformer case with silicon?
 
50Hz?
I ask because the different synchronous frequency can cause a hysteresis induction imbalance in older vintage Marantz transformers thusly causing the vibration you are experiencing.
I don't think siliconing the laminations or end bell housings would be prudent.
Unload(disconnect) the secondaries and see if the noise persists.

Bob
 
Hi Bob. What do you mean by "Unload(disconnect) the secondaries" please? Disconnect the transformer output and test?
The buzzing is there regardless of anything externally connected to the receiver (speakers / pre out etc). It seems to be a simple mechanical buzzing. Do you suggest that if it doesn't get any worse then I should learn to live with it? If it gets worse is there any remedy?
Thanks for your advice, Jon
 
Sometimes when a transformer is under load it will "buzz".
Similar to walking next to utility system pad mount transformers.
Disconnecting the secondary(output) of the transformer would be an easy way to determine if that's the case here.
However if the noise is minimal maybe it's best to just leave it alone.

Bob
 
Actually i meant The Right Stuff. I guess it is silicone. I didn't think it was because it is a lot tougher than silicone. On a side note, its the best stuff i have ever used for vibrating dashboards. Stuffs incredible

I found this on the web,

Another cause of abnormal transformer core saturation is operation at frequencies lower than normal. For example, if a power transformer designed to operate at 60 Hz is forced to operate at 50 Hz instead, the flux must reach greater peak levels than before in order to produce the same opposing voltage needed to balance against the source voltage. This is true even if the source voltage is the same as before. (Figure below)


Mathematically, this is another example of calculus in action. Because the voltage is proportional to the flux’s rate-of-change, we say that the voltage waveform is the derivative of the flux waveform, “derivative” being that calculus operation defining one mathematical function (waveform) in terms of the rate-of-change of another. If we take the opposite perspective, though, and relate the original waveform to its derivative, we may call the original waveform the integral of the derivative waveform. In this case, the voltage waveform is the derivative of the flux waveform, and the flux waveform is the integral of the voltage waveform.

The integral of any mathematical function is proportional to the area accumulated underneath the curve of that function. Since each half-cycle of the 50 Hz waveform accumulates more area between it and the zero line of the graph than the 60 Hz waveform will—and we know that the magnetic flux is the integral of the voltage—the flux will attain higher values
02340.png

  • Noise is a common phenomenon exhibited by transformers—especially power transformers—and is primarily caused by magnetostriction of the core. Physical forces causing winding vibration may also generate noise under conditions of heavy (high current) secondary winding load.

I think you nailed it Mr Bob!
 
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John,
How long did you spend looking up all that stuff??!!!

Bob
Bob and John, thanks kindly for your time and ideas. I removed the transformer from the chassis, and buzzing was still there but more acceptable level. So I tightened the through bolts and reinstalled the unit tightly and now the buzz is still there but not unduly noticeable from say more than 2 metres. So if it's true that it's just probably a thing with the older Marantz on 50hz (mine is 1972) then I will live with it. Thanks again, Jon
 
Put a C clamp on it:D

Cut and Paste... I can make stuff say anything i want and it looks like I'm smart, but in reality, I am scrambling around in the dark, like most people.
 
I am a amateur radio operator and have experienced buzzing transformers , usually in power supplies for tube equipment.
Many times the buzzing is caused by the transformer laminations becoming loose . When a transformer is constucted,
it is dipped in laquer to glue the laminations together. With age they can loosen up and vibrate . The cure is simple but
messy. Remove the transformer and it casing , drop in a container of laquer for a few hours. Then let dry for a few days.
When dry to the touch and no odor , put in an oven at low temp for a while to finish the drying . Make sure the spouse is
not home ! Have rescued several noisy transformers this way. Your mileage may vary.
 
I am a amateur radio operator and have experienced buzzing transformers , usually in power supplies for tube equipment.
Many times the buzzing is caused by the transformer laminations becoming loose . When a transformer is constucted,
it is dipped in laquer to glue the laminations together. With age they can loosen up and vibrate . The cure is simple but
messy. Remove the transformer and it casing , drop in a container of laquer for a few hours. Then let dry for a few days.
When dry to the touch and no odor , put in an oven at low temp for a while to finish the drying . Make sure the spouse is
not home ! Have rescued several noisy transformers this way. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks for the advice! Which kind of lacquer would you use? Do you need to remove all casing, cables etc, just leaving the main unit and coils? I am not planning to do this right away but may need to in future if the problem gets worse. Thanks!
 
Thanks for the advice! Which kind of lacquer would you use? Do you need to remove all casing, cables etc, just leaving the main unit and coils? I am not planning to do this right away but may need to in future if the problem gets worse. Thanks!

I used the plain laquer that you would use on wood. If the case can be removed easily , take it off. Keep the wires and suspend the transformer
by the wires as you dunk them in the laquer. If the case is on , not sure if saturation of the laminations would happen. It is
the hardened laquer that glues the transformer together and prevents buzzing. Have you ever heard an old battery charger hum ? Same
thing. Should cost a few dollars and save the transformer. If the wires get coated with laquer no big deal . Burn the ends with a match
like you would do with magnet wire.
 
I used the plain laquer that you would use on wood. If the case can be removed easily , take it off. Keep the wires and suspend the transformer
by the wires as you dunk them in the laquer. If the case is on , not sure if saturation of the laminations would happen. It is
the hardened laquer that glues the transformer together and prevents buzzing. Have you ever heard an old battery charger hum ? Same
thing. Should cost a few dollars and save the transformer. If the wires get coated with laquer no big deal . Burn the ends with a match
like you would do with magnet wire.
Thanks- that's really helpful. I'll give that ago if the buzz gets worse...
 
I used the plain laquer that you would use on wood. If the case can be removed easily , take it off. Keep the wires and suspend the transformer
by the wires as you dunk them in the laquer. If the case is on , not sure if saturation of the laminations would happen. It is
the hardened laquer that glues the transformer together and prevents buzzing. Have you ever heard an old battery charger hum ? Same
thing. Should cost a few dollars and save the transformer. If the wires get coated with laquer no big deal . Burn the ends with a match
like you would do with magnet wire.
OK I sorted it- good as new! Opened case, and leaving the transformer in place sprayed copious amounts of spray lacquer into coils and cores. Let to dry a few days with some assistance from hairdryer. Appears to be perfect now! 100% quiet! Very pleased, thanks for your help! Jon
 
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