Marantz 2270 P700 Phono Board Parts List

[NazcaRecords]

Hello everyone,
I'm trying to do an overhaul on my 2270 phono board P700.
Does anybody have the part list from Mouser.com.
I don't need every single component just the main basic ones.
Thank you

 

[Steven Tate]

Looking at the SM, I believe this is the same board that is in the 2230 and 2245, both of which I have done using a parts list given by MBuras. Here is the list with Mouser part numbers. Check it against what you see, but I believe it is the same. If you are replacing transistors, notice that the 2SC458's were BCE and the KSC1845's are ECB pin arrangement.
Steve

P700 Phono Board:
C011 50v/220uf 647-TVX1H221MCD
C703 6.3v/22uf 555-RFS10V220ME3#5
C704 6.3v/22uf 555-RFS10V220ME3#5
C713 50v/100uf 555-RFS50V101MI5#5
H701 2sc1000 ecb 512-KSC1815YTA ecb
H702 2sc1000 ecb 512-KSC1815YTA ecb
H703 2sc1000 ecb 512-KSC1815YTA ecb
H704 2sc1000 ecb 512-KSC1815YTA ecb
H705 2sc458 bce 512-KSC1845FTA ecb
H706 2sc458 bce 512-KSC1845FTA ecb
H707 1S1212 512-1N4148
H708 1S1212 512-1N4148
H709 VD1212 512-1N4148 (x2 in series)
(note the axial capacitor at C011. Not your normal radial cap but just as easy to install. More of the failure prone 2SC458's. And anytime you find a 1S1212 epoxy diode, looks like a blob of plastic, it should be replaced as a matter of course just like the 2SC458's. Follow the markings on the board and install the new diode with the cathode, line, matching the board. Same for replacing any VD1212 you find except that requires 2 new diodes soldered in series, meaning anode/cathode/anode/cathode.)

 

[NazcaRecords]

Thank you!

 

[CapnGil]

Looking at the SM, I believe this is the same board that is in the 2230 and 2245, both of which I have done using a parts list given by MBuras. Here is the list with Mouser part numbers. Check it against what you see, but I believe it is the same. If you are replacing transistors, notice that the 2SC458's were BCE and the KSC1845's are ECB pin arrangement.
Steve

P700 Phono Board:
C011 50v/220uf 647-TVX1H221MCD
C703 6.3v/22uf 555-RFS10V220ME3#5
C704 6.3v/22uf 555-RFS10V220ME3#5
C713 50v/100uf 555-RFS50V101MI5#5
H701 2sc1000 ecb 512-KSC1815YTA ecb
H702 2sc1000 ecb 512-KSC1815YTA ecb
H703 2sc1000 ecb 512-KSC1815YTA ecb
H704 2sc1000 ecb 512-KSC1815YTA ecb
H705 2sc458 bce 512-KSC1845FTA ecb
H706 2sc458 bce 512-KSC1845FTA ecb
H707 1S1212 512-1N4148
H708 1S1212 512-1N4148
H709 VD1212 512-1N4148 (x2 in series)
(note the axial capacitor at C011. Not your normal radial cap but just as easy to install. More of the failure prone 2SC458's. And anytime you find a 1S1212 epoxy diode, looks like a blob of plastic, it should be replaced as a matter of course just like the 2SC458's. Follow the markings on the board and install the new diode with the cathode, line, matching the board. Same for replacing any VD1212 you find except that requires 2 new diodes soldered in series, meaning anode/cathode/anode/cathode.)

Hello Steven, I see this is a response to an old thread, but it was very valuable to me, so thank you for sharing.

That said, would you happen to have a full list (same format) of Mouser parts to redo the Marantz 2270. I've been racking my poor old disabled brain searching for compatible components.

hopefully you a have an old hard drive or floppy disk (LOL) with a list on it.

Please advise
Be well
gil

 

[Steven Tate]

The only thing I could find was this very old list I made years ago about replacement parts for the 2245. 99% of the parts are the same on the 2270. Just be sure to check values to make sure they are the same. The main difference on the amp boards is in the driver transistors, and possibly the predrivers (not sure). They are different between the 2245 and 2270. Also, some of the parts listed here are no longer available. I think the big Gold Tune filter caps are no longer available unless you find a place with some originals still in stock.

 

[CapnGil]

Has anyone every accused you of being a gentleman and a scholar? I ..... smile

Much appreciate your assistance and I will cross reference as move forward; at least I now have a starting point.

Be well
gil

 

[GlasgowGrip]

@CapnGil: In my opinion there is an error in that list for the P700 Phono Board. The substitution for H705/H706 should be KSC1815 and not KSC1845. The lower gain of the KSC1815 is a much better match for the 2SC458's in this application. C1845's will work there in some cases, but under certain conditions they lead to a "motorboating" oscillation problem in the phono amp (seen in 2030's, 2245's and 2270's). One repeatable case is to connect anything to the Tape Out jacks (even just a cable) and the motorboating will occur if C1845's are installed. The additional cure for this is to install small Miller caps (10pF C0G MLCC's) across B-C on H705/H706.

My best practice is to always replace the C458's at H705/H706 because they are pretty notorious troublemakers, replace with C1815's. However, the 2SC1000's at H701-H704 are reliable and I leave them alone unless there is evidence of a problem with them.

Final thought - @Steven Tate is an incredibly generous contributor and absolutely no disrespect is intended. I think the Phono motorboating problem wasn't well understood at the time he posted that original parts list in 2016. There are a number of threads about it since then.

 

[CapnGil]

@CapnGil: In my opinion there is an error in that list for the P700 Phono Board. The substitution for H705/H706 should be KSC1815 and not KSC1845. The lower gain of the KSC1815 is a much better match for the 2SC458's in this application. C1845's will work there in some cases, but under certain conditions they lead to a "motorboating" oscillation problem in the phono amp (seen in 2030's, 2245's and 2270's). One repeatable case is to connect anything to the Tape Out jacks (even just a cable) and the motorboating will occur if C1845's are installed. The additional cure for this is to install small Miller caps (10pF C0G MLCC's) across B-C on H705/H706.

My best practice is to always replace the C458's at H705/H706 because they are pretty notorious troublemakers, replace with C1815's. However, the 2SC1000's at H701-H704 are reliable and I leave them alone unless there is evidence of a problem with them.

Final thought - @Steven Tate is an incredibly generous contributor and absolutely no disrespect is intended. I think the Phono motorboating problem wasn't well understood at the time he posted that original parts list in 2016. There are a number of threads about it since then.

Another Gentelman and a Scholar..... I trust I am worthy of such attention..... Smile. Comments duly noted and applied.

That said a side bar question if I may on board P300.
It's been said and quoted that C333 and C334 should now be at 10uf/35V rather than 1uf/25V per SM lists. I can appreciate the voltage increase, maybe due to unavailability of 25V, but going from 1uf to 10uf has me searching for answers.

Any comments on this? was it a Service Manual misprint or simple matter of time told the need to change?


be well
gil

 

[GlasgowGrip]

It's been said and quoted that C333 and C334 should now be at 10uf/35V rather than 1uf/25V per SM lists. I can appreciate the voltage increase, maybe due to unavailability of 25V, but going from 1uf to 10uf has me searching for answers.

Any comments on this? was it a Service Manual misprint or simple matter of time told the need to change?

I believe it's a classic example of a Marantz SM error - not uncommon! Search in the marantz-service-manual-error thread, it is your friend. See this post, there may be others as well: 2245 MPX P300 board. (Remember the P300 is the same in the 2245 as in the 2270.)

 

[Steven Tate]

@CapnGil: In my opinion there is an error in that list for the P700 Phono Board. The substitution for H705/H706 should be KSC1815 and not KSC1845. The lower gain of the KSC1815 is a much better match for the 2SC458's in this application. C1845's will work there in some cases, but under certain conditions they lead to a "motorboating" oscillation problem in the phono amp (seen in 2030's, 2245's and 2270's). One repeatable case is to connect anything to the Tape Out jacks (even just a cable) and the motorboating will occur if C1845's are installed. The additional cure for this is to install small Miller caps (10pF C0G MLCC's) across B-C on H705/H706.

My best practice is to always replace the C458's at H705/H706 because they are pretty notorious troublemakers, replace with C1815's. However, the 2SC1000's at H701-H704 are reliable and I leave them alone unless there is evidence of a problem with them.

Final thought - @Steven Tate is an incredibly generous contributor and absolutely no disrespect is intended. I think the Phono motorboating problem wasn't well understood at the time he posted that original parts list in 2016. There are a number of threads about it since then.

I agree completely. I use only KSC1815's on 2230, 2245 and 2270 phono boards.

 

[Steven Tate]

Another Gentelman and a Scholar..... I trust I am worthy of such attention..... Smile. Comments duly noted and applied.

That said a side bar question if I may on board P300.
It's been said and quoted that C333 and C334 should now be at 10uf/35V rather than 1uf/25V per SM lists. I can appreciate the voltage increase, maybe due to unavailability of 25V, but going from 1uf to 10uf has me searching for answers.

Any comments on this? was it a Service Manual misprint or simple matter of time told the need to change?


be well
gil

I agree that it is likely a service manual error. There are lots of these in Marantz units of this era. Bottom line, if the unit is original, always go with what you find on the board if it differs from the service manual.

 

[CapnGil]

I have a saying the a truly applies here.

"I am ignorant, not stupid, through education I will take appropriate actions"... smile.

That said, I see I am in step 4 or 5 of the vintage Marantz restoration journey. Step 2 (kinda) was doubting that these Marantz's would have such discrepancies and trying to find truths in the mix, where so little validated information is available.

I see now, it's better to put plans into park rather than 1st gear to confirm plans, materials and actions before moving on. Sadly I also see some variations between model years and Service Manuals, in my case I have a 12/20/1972 Marantz 2270 and I am seeking a SM that addresses these units to cut down on conflicts; may be a futile effort, but it's my step 4.23... lol.

I did consider the remove and confirm component approach, but I'd rather not have a disassembled mess awaiting for parts to rebuild. The board by board approach was and is my plan, so any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Finally, I'm finding that lower or closer voltage Caps are few and far between, so wondering how the units sound (reason why we do this right?) will be affected by such increase in cap voltages. I obviously am not electronics engineer, but I do question. Furthermore, I see I need to confirm actual physical sizes now with increased voltages to insure the caps will fit.

I wonder how accurate or good those E-bay recap, etc kits can be? I definitely don't get the warm and fuzzy feeling in reading their promotional ads, besides I like knowing what options and quality parts I am dealing with; I've been known to be a bit anal about my stuff... smile.

In conclusion, I see you guys have been around and have walked in a few shoes, so a well done and much appreciated for sharing your obtained knowledge; know that the information provided and time vested with me will not go to waste.

Be well
Gil

 

[Steven Tate]

The cap voltage rating will not affect the sound at all. It is simply the max voltage that the cap is designed for. You can go higher, but not lower than the voltage listed in spec. Most people will go higher one or two levels if they don't have a perfect match. Higher voltage rated caps can have more inrush current when you power up. A few scattered caps with higher voltage ratings will have little effect on the total inrush current. But, theoretcally, if someone upped the voltage rating on all caps (not really practical due to size limitations) it could increase the power up current to a point that it affect the power switch. Bottom line. Don't worry about upping a few random caps in voltage rating. It will have zero effect on the sound. But the capacitance rating is very important to make the circuits work properly.

 

[GlasgowGrip]

@CapnGil: I would personally be very wary of the suitability and accuracy of recap kits you buy on the 'Bay - but I've never actually bought one. I'm pretty sure that some sellers are reliable, and maybe some aren't, but I dunno for a fact. I select and buy my components from big suppliers (mostly Mouser, sometimes Digikey, occasionally Newark, rarely Arrow).

So regarding capacitor ratings...

@Steven Tate is mostly right. Totally correct that capacitor Voltage rating does not affect the sound, because it is simply the maximum working voltage that the cap is designed to handle reliably. The general rule is that you are safe to stay the same or to increase the working voltage - within reason, keep in mind that higher working voltage = bigger cap and more expensive. (In fact, we occasionally find caps where the original working voltage was marginal and the voltage rating really SHOULD be increased for reliability/lifespan reasons.)

The one thing Steven missed is regarding the voltage rating and inrush current. Voltage rating does not affect inrush current. It is the capacitance value that affects inrush current. Bigger capacitance value = bigger inrush in a circuit when a cap is first charged up. But for small caps in an amp that basically never matters anyway since we would be talking tiny currents for small value caps. The only time you would begin to consider the increase in inrush current is when you are talking about increasing the capacity of main filter caps connected to the bridge rectifier and transformer in the main power supply. But there the inrush currents are only transient (occur at power-on) and as the power supply quickly reaches steady state they are not a problem. Power switch is generally a weak link, however. Hey, sorry, getting into the weeds here, the bottom line is don't even worry about it unless you are really jacking the main filter caps way up.

Okay, so last "rule", and Steven T. was totally correct: changing a capacitance value can significantly affect the sound, and not always in a desirable way. Now it depends on the role of a given cap in a given circuit, so just proceed with caution and keep the capacitance values the same unless you have a good reason for changing. And sometimes there are absolutely good reasons, but you need to understand each particular case if you want to get good results.

Cheers! -Steve

 

[dankik]

Another factor is the physical size of the replacement cap. Modern caps of the same capacitance and voltage rating will, in most cases, be physically smaller than the one that you are replacing. In particular, the diameter and the lead spacing. When selecting replacement caps, I measure the lead spacing and diameter of the old cap and try to match it with the new one. I can maintain the capacitance and also can increase the voltage to match a diameter and/or lead spacing to the PCB hole spacing.

 

[Steven Tate]

@CapnGil: I would personally be very wary of the suitability and accuracy of recap kits you buy on the 'Bay - but I've never actually bought one. I'm pretty sure that some sellers are reliable, and maybe some aren't, but I dunno for a fact. I select and buy my components from big suppliers (mostly Mouser, sometimes Digikey, occasionally Newark, rarely Arrow).

So regarding capacitor ratings...

@Steven Tate is mostly right. Totally correct that capacitor Voltage rating does not affect the sound, because it is simply the maximum working voltage that the cap is designed to handle reliably. The general rule is that you are safe to stay the same or to increase the working voltage - within reason, keep in mind that higher working voltage = bigger cap and more expensive. (In fact, we occasionally find caps where the original working voltage was marginal and the voltage rating really SHOULD be increased for reliability/lifespan reasons.)

The one thing Steven missed is regarding the voltage rating and inrush current. Voltage rating does not affect inrush current. It is the capacitance value that affects inrush current. Bigger capacitance value = bigger inrush in a circuit when a cap is first charged up. But for small caps in an amp that basically never matters anyway since we would be talking tiny currents for small value caps. The only time you would begin to consider the increase in inrush current is when you are talking about increasing the capacity of main filter caps connected to the bridge rectifier and transformer in the main power supply. But there the inrush currents are only transient (occur at power-on) and as the power supply quickly reaches steady state they are not a problem. Power switch is generally a weak link, however. Hey, sorry, getting into the weeds here, the bottom line is don't even worry about it unless you are really jacking the main filter caps way up.

Okay, so last "rule", and Steven T. was totally correct: changing a capacitance value can significantly affect the sound, and not always in a desirable way. Now it depends on the role of a given cap in a given circuit, so just proceed with caution and keep the capacitance values the same unless you have a good reason for changing. And sometimes there are absolutely good reasons, but you need to understand each particular case if you want to get good results.

Cheers! -Steve

I think you are correct. I was thinking that physcally larger caps would take more electrons to charge up at power up. Maybe not.

 

[CapnGil]

Well, I'm taking the slow and painful process, by losening each board, inspecting each component to be replaced (.aimly caps and transistors) and confirming farads and volts. Only one board left and so far I've found five that do not coincide with the Service Manuals description. In addition one board P550 has a few more or different components than the manual shows.

I'll just replace with matching or close to matching as I can find. In addition, I got a little curious with the main amp boards and took a meter to checking the resistors and found more than 8 that were way out of spec as compared to the manual and Resistor color codes.

Wow, a new concern to address. Not sure how far I want to investigate the resistors issue as there is a $%&@ load of them. Goo news is that the Resistor issue are only on the main amp boards; check at random twenty or so on other boards and they all were fine.

I will fully inpect and replace all faulty resistors on the two main amp boards. This is strange as I hooked up my oscilloscope to the main out with a 1khz signal that was being fed directly into the main amp input and it had a clean signal. There was distortion if and when I hooked it up with the preamp, which started me off on this tune up, now full rebuild project.

I guess it can only make it better so my efforts should be worthy of my time. Finally, I'm comfortable with what need be done, just a little disappointed that with all the hype around these Marantz's that there are so many small discrepancies in design/specs/manuals and actual finish build. I'm sure, these small differences don't really make a difference sound wise, but sadly it iggs me.

Be well

 

[dankik]

...and took a meter to checking the resistors and found more than 8 that were way out of spec as compared to the manual and Resistor color codes.

You removed one leg of each resistor and measured the resistance and found that it did not match the color code?

 

[GlasgowGrip]

...and took a meter to checking the resistors and found more than 8 that were way out of spec as compared to the manual and Resistor color codes.

I will fully inpect and replace all faulty resistors on the two main amp boards.

@dankik is correct to ask that question. Two reasons: 1. The installed value (color code) may differ from the schematic (as we know sometimes changes were made by the factory during the production run). 2. You can only measure a resistor if it is isolated - that depends on the circuit. Many times when you try to measure a resistor while soldered into a board, you will get funky-looking readings because there are alternate or parallel paths through the circuit, and you are not just measuring through the resistor itself. Depends on the circuit! So in those cases the fallback method of desoldering and lifting one end of a resistor will allow you to get the isolated resistance value - but it's extra work and requires care to not damage the board trace or resistor. Also, you can take advantage of having removed other components while troubleshooting, repairing or refurbishing a board and get accurate readings of certain resistors while the other componenets are out of the circuit.

As for the resistors on the main amp boards... Bottom line, resistors on the P750 boards are not likely to be problems or out of spec unless there has been damage from unusual heat or high current (for example shorted outputs or drivers or other failed parts) or maybe someone has previously done incorrect repairs. My thought is that if the overall board measures well and sounds good, you're kind of just on a wild goose chase. For the P750, I'd replace the e-caps/tants for sure (C759, C760, C761), usually the diff pair H751-H752 (matched KSA992's bound together with heatshrink), usually the zeners H762-H763 (BZX85B15), maybe replace the trimmers if they are glitchy or decrepit, then clean the outputs and the heatsinks and reinstall with fresh mica and thermal compound and if the offset and bias set correctly then call it a day. Sometimes you will find a P750 where the bias adjusts but won't go all the way down to where you need it (10mV) and you will have to replace R784-R785 with the next higher value (if a jumper go to 3.9 ohm, if 3.9 go to 5.6 ohm), but only cross that bridge if you get to it. Anyway - don't make it harder than it needs to be. And if you want to get fancy and go for some "audiophile" upgrades, replace C751 with a polypropylene film, replace C753/C754 with C0G MLCC's, and replace R757/R759 with 1% metal films. Some will also recommend adding flyback diodes on the outputs, can't hurt but also optional.

 

[CapnGil]

ok another quick question as I work on finalizing my component list, being that there are no direct replacement parts.

Can I simply use Audio Grade caps on everything, as they are said to be of "better"grade? Yes a see a bit more expensive but pennies on the dollar when it comes to rebuilding one 2270? The only one I would retain as power grade would be the two filter caps.

be well
gil