Marantz 6200 v. Harman Kardon T55C

[BigBogner]

This has been a really tricky debate for me trying to figure out which to keep as my main table. I recently fell into both these tables on the cheap and need some help deciding which would be more advantageous.

I’m running an Ortofon 2M Red on the Marantz 6200. Deep rich bass, vibrant mids, nice and warm.

The Marantz wins in the looks department, as well as functionality as it is full auto as opposed to just auto lift.

The HK has a Signet MRe 5.0 on it which sounds more robust. The signet seems to be capable of giving a more true representation to the music, a little less colorful than the Ortofon. I’m enjoying listening to music louder with the Signet as I feel it’s handling the peaks better that the Ortofon.

The HK still looks cool, but is no Marantz, and the 80’s aesthetic just slightly clashes with my 70’s je ne sais quoi. The HK also benefits from having a more consistent belt-driven motor with a quartz lock function, compared to the Marantz which is direct drive and not quite as stable speedwise I’m finding. The capacitance trim is also quite cool to me although I don’t own any MM cartridges.

Marantz wins in the mat department, it looks way cooler and has significantly less static, but the HK has that badass stabilizer (which I use with the Marantz).

The tone arm on both seem to be of similar quality, just largely different designs. I think I prefer the looks of the Marantz S-shape but the function of the Microrace.

Lastly, the suspension on the HK is a big selling point. Dampening on the Marantz is nearly non-existent. While neither have had issues with footfalls, I feel the Marantz will be more susceptible long term.

I’m leaning Marantz here as I’m a bit of a design nerd, but I’m going to put both through the reps.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Well I've gone into the performance differences at length in your other post and was wondering what you thought about that. It appears you are falling for the looks of the Marantz and the name matching to your receiver. I think a T-55c veneered (there is one of the HKs here on ak that got the wood treatment) is a real looker and is it a better performer but you prefer the name on the other table and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'd say keep the Marantz and enjoy and sell off the HK and make someone very happy. You can get a record weight from the bay if you need it.

 

[BigBogner]

Well I've gone into the performance differences at length in your other post and was wondering what you thought about that. It appears you are falling for the looks of the Marantz and the name matching to your receiver. I think a T-55c veneered (there is one of the HKs here on ak that got the wood treatment) is a real looker and is it a better performer but you prefer the name on the other table and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'd say keep the Marantz and enjoy and sell off the HK and make someone very happy. You can get a record weight from the bay if you need it.

Sorry, I should have built off of that last thread but got sidetracked by work. I think I’ve determined the Pro-Ject is the weak link (to my tastes) as I like some form of automatic function... I’ll admit I’m smitten with the looks of the Marantz, but letting such a solid TT in the HK would hurt (can you tell I have a collection problem?). I think the HK will make a fine backup/office table while the Marantz dazzles in the main common space.

I saw that HK with the wood and now I’m tempted... that’s absolutely gorgeous. Either way, I appreciate all of the insight.

 

[spark1]

Neither table is significantly better or worse than the other.

The Signet is a very nice cartridge...quite a bit better than the 2M Red (IMHO). You could of course move it to the Marantz and see how it performs with its higher mass arm. I think it will do fine.

As for speed stability on the Marantz...it may be that the speed pots just need to be cleaned and re-set. Not hard to do.

I like suspended tables, but solid plinth tables can perform equally well. If feedback/vibration is an issue, you can look into isolation strategies.

Keep both, or choose the one that you like better.

 

[BigBogner]

Neither table is significantly better or worse than the other.

The Signet is a very nice cartridge...quite a bit better than the 2M Red (IMHO). You could of course move it to the Marantz and see how it performs with its higher mass arm. I think it will do fine.

As for speed stability on the Marantz...it may be that the speed pots just need to be cleaned and re-set. Not hard to do.

I like suspended tables, but solid plinth tables can perform equally well. If feedback/vibration is an issue, you can look into isolation strategies.

Keep both, or choose the one that you like better.

I’m finding I like the Signet more and more as I listen to it. I plan on opening up the Maratnz and giving the pots a good deox this weekend to see if that helps.

 

[MCM_Fan]

I'm biased. I admit I love my Harman Kardon T60s (I have two). Of my five current tables (2x Harman Kardon T60, Yamaha PX-2, Denon DP-37F and Technics SL-1401), the HK is my favorite, and it's not really close. It just flat out sounds better than the others. I actually prefer the clean, elegant looks of the HK over the gaudy (to me) faux wood vinyl wrap of my Denon and the Marantz (but that's strictly a matter of personal preference, of course). If I could only keep one table, it would be the Harman Kardon, without question and without hesitation.

Of course, a properly matched cartridge plays a huge part in how well any table sounds, and all of my best cartridges are of the vintage MM high compliance variety that are a perfect match for the 8g effective mass of the very nice ITO Microrace tonearm on the HK. Personally, I don't think that Marantz is anything special. I assume you know it actually wasn't made by Marantz, but by CEC. I have owned other similar CEC made tables, and have found them to very competent and very reliable, but that Marantz is almost a decade older than your HK. I don't know the exact effective mass of that CEC tonearm, but from the looks of it, probably at least 16g, and very possibly higher.

And herein lies your dilemma, the current trend is toward medium compliance tonearms and cartridges. Of course, there are still multiple examples of high and low compliance carts in current production, but a medium mass arm will give you the most options in new cartridges. You have two tables, one with a low mass tonearm and one with an arm on the heavy side. So, it really comes down to what carts you plan to run now and in the future.

Speaking of carts, no offense, but your Marantz is being unfairly handicapped by that Ortofon 2M Red. The 2M Red is one of the worst sounding cartridges I have ever heard. The IGD is unbearable. I have a soft spot for vintage Signet carts. I have two (a TK10ML, which is currently riding on my T60, and a TK5E). The TK10ML is a pretty special cartridge, one of the most advanced MM carts at the time it was in production (mid-1980s - same time as my HK T60, no wonder they play so well together). The TK5E was a mid-level Signet model (0.2 x 0.7mil nude elliptical on a tapered, hardened aluminum cantilever), but I also find it to be a very pleasant sounding cartridge. You could move the Signet to the Marantz, but it will not perform it's best on that heavy tonearm.

If it was me, I'd keep the Harman Kardon and sell the Marantz. Even though I think the HK is the better table, I think the Marantz will fetch much more due to the appeal of the Marantz name and the more nostalgic appearance. Then use that money to buy a new cart and maybe an external phono stage. By all means, keep the Signet cart and continue to enjoy it, but it would also be nice to have a new, currently available cart as a way of future proofing your HK.

 

[MCM_Fan]

P.S. Even though Signet is no longer around, as you probably know they were Audio Technica's upscale brand. And while no current production AT stylus will fit your Signet MRe 5.0 body there are several options available as NOS replacements. Anything that fits the AT K or L series at this site will work on your Signet. Try searching eBay for better selection, and perhaps better pricing.

 

[BigBogner]

I'm biased. I admit I love my Harman Kardon T60s (I have two). Of my five current tables (2x Harman Kardon T60, Yamaha PX-2, Denon DP-37F and Technics SL-1401), the HK is my favorite, and it's not really close. It just flat out sounds better than the others. I actually prefer the clean, elegant looks of the HK over the gaudy (to me) faux wood vinyl wrap of my Denon and the Marantz (but that's strictly a matter of personal preference, of course). If I could only keep one table, it would be the Harman Kardon, without question and without hesitation.

Of course, a properly matched cartridge plays a huge part in how well any table sounds, and all of my best cartridges are of the vintage MM high compliance variety that are a perfect match for the 8g effective mass of the very nice ITO Microrace tonearm on the HK. Personally, I don't think that Marantz is anything special. I assume you know it actually wasn't made by Marantz, but by CEC. I have owned other similar CEC made tables, and have found them to very competent and very reliable, but that Marantz is almost a decade older than your HK. I don't know the exact effective mass of that CEC tonearm, but from the looks of it, probably at least 16g, and very possibly higher.

And herein lies your dilemma, the current trend is toward medium compliance tonearms and cartridges. Of course, there are still multiple examples of high and low compliance carts in current production, but a medium mass arm will give you the most options in new cartridges. You have two tables, one with a low mass tonearm and one with an arm on the heavy side. So, it really comes down to what carts you plan to run now and in the future.

Speaking of carts, no offense, but your Marantz is being unfairly handicapped by that Ortofon 2M Red. The 2M Red is one of the worst sounding cartridges I have ever heard. The IGD is unbearable. I have a soft spot for vintage Signet carts. I have two (a TK10ML, which is currently riding on my T60, and a TK5E). The TK10ML is a pretty special cartridge, one of the most advanced MM carts at the time it was in production (mid-1980s - same time as my HK T60, no wonder they play so well together). The TK5E was a mid-level Signet model (0.2 x 0.7mil nude elliptical on a tapered, hardened aluminum cantilever), but I also find it to be a very pleasant sounding cartridge. You could move the Signet to the Marantz, but it will not perform it's best on that heavy tonearm.

If it was me, I'd keep the Harman Kardon and sell the Marantz. Even though I think the HK is the better table, I think the Marantz will fetch much more due to the appeal of the Marantz name and the more nostalgic appearance. Then use that money to buy a new cart and maybe an external phono stage. By all means, keep the Signet cart and continue to enjoy it, but it would also be nice to have a new, currently available cart as a way of future proofing your HK.

No offense taken, and thank you for your take, that was actually very helpful in me understanding this dilemma.

So if I’m understanding that correctly, any of the styli on that website could pop into place with the Signet cartridge?

I’m considering keeping the Marantz as a backup at this point and selling my Pro-Ject with the Ortofon to find another purchase. What is the benefit to an external phono stage? My understanding is that my Pioneer SX-880 has a solid phono pre-amp as well as my Marantz 2230.