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Marantz Circuitry - what's the difference?

H

hntjr

Active Member
From time to time I see posts about Marantz circuitry like: "I am specifically referring to the 2230, 2245, and 2270 models, which as I understand it were capacatively coupled..." (by nukemicrosoft: in AK most over rated/under rated) I don't know a lot about circuitry, but I am interested in purchasing a 22xx series receiver. There is a lot of different comments on the 22xx as to which is the best sounding. To me, if the circuitry is all the same the sound should be similar. Over time Marantz made different models, with different designs/circuitry. Does anyone know what are the circuitry differences as the 22xx series evolved as it relates to specific models?

Thanks for your help!
 
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Honestly, that question is too broad to answer in all but the most general terms. Buy a higher-end unit, and you'll get more sophisticated circuitry.

FYI, of the specific models mentioned, only the 2230 has a cap-coupled output.
 
Yup too broad... There are many items that affect sound qualities beside circuitry.... Things like PS capacity, component quality, assembly techniques, wiring, physical layout and on and on....

Identical circuits may sound very different based on differences with the items above....cheap parts in a great circuit will sound cheap....

jk
 
BINGO...
"cheap parts in a great circuit will sound cheap".

Whenever someone complains that they don't like the sound of their refurbished receiver, ask two questions, assuming the piece was worth refurbing in the first place:
What was the skill level and motivation of the tech, and
Did the customer allow for the selection of quality Audio Components to be used in the restoration?
 
Thanks for the replies, but we're talking about Marantz receivers, so I assume their quality of parts was good. From the reading I've done, there seem to be the early receivers 2230,2245,2270, then a series without B's, then a series with B's. I was interested in what the output stage differences might be?

When you are in the market for a refurbish and you are not knowledgeable about quality part replacements, how are you suppose to know how to advise the tech as whether he is using quality replacement parts?

jstand: I worked at Tech Hifi from 1976-84. I sold quite a few Ohm F's although I preferred Infinity and own RS 2.5's, which need new surrounds.
I also sold alot of Marantz. I remember two George Washington sales where we had bulk stacks of 2325 and 2238. I wish I could remember what we sold them for?
 
hntjr said:
Thanks for the replies, but we're talking about Marantz receivers, so I assume their quality of parts was good. From the reading I've done, there seem to be the early receivers 2230,2245,2270, then a series without B's, then a series with B's. I was interested in what the output stage differences might be?
Click to expand...
A few of the bottom feeders will have a capacitor-coupled output stage. The ones using a protection relay will have a direct-coupled output stage, either in what is referred to as a 'common collector' or 'common emitter' configuration. But the differences in the output stages of the direct-coupled amps is not where the real advantages or disadvantages lie, since the output stage itself likely has the least real influence on the overall sound quality.
When you are in the market for a refurbish and you are not knowledgeable about quality part replacements, how are you suppose to know how to advise the tech as whether he is using quality replacement parts?
Click to expand...
If you find yourself in the position where you need to be the parts chooser/procurer for the repair of your gear, you got the wrong dude working on it.
 
PB_Audio said:
BINGO...
"cheap parts in a great circuit will sound cheap".

Whenever someone complains that they don't like the sound of their refurbished receiver, ask two questions, assuming the piece was worth refurbing in the first place:
What was the skill level and motivation of the tech, and
Did the customer allow for the selection of quality Audio Components to be used in the restoration?
Click to expand...

Again comes down to "what do you want to spend".
 
The Fs can be bla without tons of power and damping....like from a 500.

I have a friend that used to work for Ohm in the 70s. He just refurbed a set of As . I have to make a trip to hear them.

Where did you work for Tech Hifi?

JohnK

hntjr said:
jstand: I worked at Tech Hifi from 1976-84. I sold quite a few Ohm F's although I preferred Infinity and own RS 2.5's, which need new surrounds.
I also sold alot of Marantz. I remember two George Washington sales where we had bulk stacks of 2325 and 2238. I wish I could remember what we sold them for?
Click to expand...
 
EchoWars said:
Honestly, that question is too broad to answer in all but the most general terms. Buy a higher-end unit, and you'll get more sophisticated circuitry.

FYI, of the specific models mentioned, only the 2230 has a cap-coupled output.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure my 2220 also has a cap-coupled output.
 
I guess I'm not getting very far. I wanted to know what was different in the circuitry to make a difference in the sound, but that was too broad. So I asked about the output stage as I remember going from output transistors to IC's made a difference in sound, but Echowars said that the output stage didn't make much difference. So I'm back to the beginning, what makes the difference in sound between the Marantz receivers? It's got to be circuitry design differences, doesn't it?

Jstang: At Tech Hifi I worked at in order: Stoneham, Ma; Worcester, Ma; New Haven, Ct; Harvard Sq, Cambridge, Ma; Framingham, Ma; Saugus, Ma; Burlington, Ma; and back to Worcester, Ma. It was a lot of fun. Tech Hifi found that I was a great merchandizer and moved me around alot to merchanduze stores. I managed Suagus, Burlington and Worcester.
 
It is the preamp design mostly. If you have a unit with pre/main jacks on the back, try using a preamp with it and see if you hear a difference.

Rob
 
I don't think you can focus just on the power amplifiers or output circuits when trying to determine where the signature sound for any particular unit comes from.

Using a 2270 as an example, it is constructed of 13 separate circuit boards plus a transformer, interconnecting wiring and many individual controls. While many of the boards may share a fundamental design with the same board in different models, each model may use its own unique version of that board, that suits the designers requirements.

Since the finial sound of the 2270 is the sum-total of all its parts, you can not point to a single board as the source of it signature sound.

Trying to catalog all of the subtle differences between many models would be a monumental task and in the end it really wouldn't address where each units signature sound really came from.

Just as a receiver is the sum-total of all its parts, each circuit board is also the sum-total of all its components plus its design, which includes how the board was laid out.

In the end it comes down to listening to what other owners say about their models and trying to make the best guess on what to buy.
 
bktheking said:
Again comes down to "what do you want to spend".
Click to expand...

Absolutely; but therein lies the balancing act. Do you 'nickle and dime' on the parts on a $200+ job?
In the end, a happy customer for the long haul is the goal. That means long-term reliability as well as the best sonic performance... and yes, at an acceptible cost to the customer.
 
"If you find yourself in the position where you need to be the parts chooser/procurer for the repair of your gear, you got the wrong dude working on it." EW

I've been servicing the most basic needs on my stuff with good results but once you get past cleaning,adjusting,bulbs,etc....learning the pecking order of repair guys in your era is a must.

A backyard mechanic is truly great for some things, but can't evaluate to adjust to requirements and needs as well. The more knowledgeable know how to walk a line better between the extremes of "gut and replace" and reaching in for a thought out "touch up" replacement. Find a shop (or partnership) where these two types respect each other and feed work to one another. (Prima Donna's and hacks get weeded out here and your question demands you finding people like this!)
 
Chrismarantz: Thanks for your reply. I was thinking about "the Circuitry" as one circuit design, not individual circuit boards that make up the whole. I think I'm somewhere between a 2240, 2245, 2250, 2265 and 2270. I need a receiver due to space considerations, I see you have a lot of Marantz separates. My big system consists of a Crown SL1, Crown PSA-2DX driving a pair of Infinity Reference Series 2.5. I bought the Crown while working at Tech Hifi primarily because the Infinity's had a nasty reputation of being difficult to drive (4 ohms and dropping lower). My search for a Marantz receiver has to do with a shop renovation, where I would like to drive a pair of Infinity Infinitesimal which are 4 ohms. How do Marantz receivers do with a 4 ohm load? Presently the shop has a Harman Kardon 330C driving some ADC XT-6 with Sony CD and Denon Cassette. Sounds very good, but with success and some more money, I'd like to do the Marantz Infinitesimal route. I have just posted an Infinity post called The Creative Technology of Infinity Speakers. You might want to take a look. Which Marantz of the above would you choose and of course why? Thanks again.
 
There are numerous other forums on the net where folks way above my pay grade hang out discussing the minutia of every aspect of circuit topology. Having said that, imho it may come down to just how closely the manufacturer set the frequency curve (for linearity) when the tone controls are defeated since as little as a 2 db variance here would make an audible difference. Towards the end of the receiver wars this linearity became a hot button and thus the words like sterile or uncolored sound started to appear. Yamaha, and I like their gear btw, probably was the first to take the plunge with their natural sound series.
-Lee
 
hntjr said:
Chrismarantz: Thanks for your reply. I was thinking about "the Circuitry" as one circuit design, not individual circuit boards that make up the whole. I think I'm somewhere between a 2240, 2245, 2250, 2265 and 2270..
Click to expand...


This is like asking what makes the design of a Corvette a Corvette and what make Prius a Prius....

If your looking for a simple answer.... There isn't one.... Other then one is a sports car and the other a hybrid.

Secondly you need to realize this is like an archeological dig....

Your answer based on the all inclusive circuitry .... Is "its a Marantz....." Just like a Corvette is a Corvette...

Jk
 
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I'm beginning to think it's like beer. If you buy some kind of Sam Adams or Becks, no matter which variety you buy from Sam Adams or Becks they have a similar type of taste within that brand. Buying any Marantz would mean that you have that same favor of sound, no matter which one you buy. Maybe it all comes down to power and features, because at the end of the day a Marantz is not going to sound like a Pioneer or Sansui.
 
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