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Marantz Quad Questions

Richs_Trains

Richs_Trains

Well-Known Member
I am trying to set up a CD-4 quad system for vinyl. I have a Marantz 4230, SQA-2, and a CD-400 disc demodulator ... my question .... I have read that a CD-4 cartridge / turntable is not required, but the cartridge and turntable must meet certain quality specifications. Anyone have experience with connecting up such a system?
 
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Hey Rich,

It depends on your source material. If you're spinning a CD4 / Quadradisc record, you need* a CD4 cart and the CD4 demodulator. If your source material is SQ encoded (rear channels encoded out of phase along side the 2 front channels) then no special carts and demodulators are necessary, *but* you do need an SQA module to decode the rear channels.

It's easy to conflate the various Quad implementations, but aside from having 4 channels, they're technically quite different (in the same way, for instance, that Betamax and VHS both displayed an NTSC video signal but utilized different hardware and media).

Because it didn't require a different cartridge and was therefore easier to use alongside your existing library of stereo media, SQ (and its derivatives) was the most popular format. Unfortunately, Marantz's SQA modules all have some limitations. The 1 has poor channel separation, but is the least failure prone. The 2B offers the best channel separation (although not as good as Sansui's excellent QRX line), but relies on an unobtanium IC, so if it dies, it's dead. 2(a) lacks some of the 2Bs superior performance and the 1's reliability, but if it's working, enjoy it!

CD4 may have achieved better channel separation on paper, but the media is fragile, with twice the amount of information in each groove of the record. *Also, while you may not absolutely need a dedicated CD4 cart, at a minimum you need one with a Shibata stylus and at frequency response up to ~40Khz to access the additional channel info. In my experience, SQ is less fussy and the media has held up a lot better over time.

For preservation's sake, I've digitized all of my SQ and CD4 media by playing it through my modified / restored QRX-9001 and recording it in 4-ch FLAC format through a 4-channel sound card. Once you get your system up and running, track down a quad copy of DSotM. It was recorded specifically for quad and mixed / mastered by Alan Parsons. It's quite different than the standard stereo recording, and (IMO) "Time" in quad is a spiritual experience :) Have fun!
 
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The SQ2-A was just rebuilt and is working, the 4230 has just been recapped and I haven't received the CD-400 yet and I have ordered some CD4 albums, just wondering if I should give it a go with my current cartridge, or order the 'Ed Saunders' cart?
 
Richs_Trains said:
Thank you for the info, there is a guy who 'used to work for Audio Technica', Ed Saunders, he has a website that sells new CD4 cartridges, have you heard anything about these. They look identical to the Audio Technica CD4 cartridges.

http://www.edsaunders.com/quad.htm

Thanks Rich
Click to expand...

It's a commonly used and well regarded cart in the Quad community. I don't believe using what you have (likely an elliptical stylus?) will necessarily hurt the CD4 records, but the impedance may be wrong for the demodulator and the stylus likely won't make good physical contact with the very high-frequency rear channel info at the tops of the grooves. You could try it and see how it sounds first?

I use an Audio Technica AT15Sa cart for both CD4 and SQ playback. The extra frequency response range helps SQ too, but isn't nearly as imperative as it is for CD4. I'd head over to the quadraphonicquad forum and do some research. There have been a lot of threads about stili posted there. Opinions are myriad, but at least you'll find some good info to inform your decision.
 
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Never felt CD4 was worth the hassle myself. Quite happy with my collection of SQ and QS, but ... I also play ALL my stereo recordings in one mode or the other. You'd be surprised how many "stereo" records are actually quad encoded anyway. Mostly SQ unless I know for sure it's QS, and I'll also use HALL effect for symphonic and old jazz. Not much of a fan of SURROUND synth modes.

(All Sansui here - QS, SQ, and CD4 should be basically the same no matter the brand. The "synth" modes used for stereo source playback can vary by brand, or even model.)

One thing you need to add to your list if your bound and determined to make it happen is a test record. CD4, as mentioned, is very finicky and you need to play a set of test tones with the table you'll be using and set the receiver's controls to calibrate the results.

Biggest thing on a table is low capacitance cabling. You can upgrade most any quality table using the shortest possible length of component video cables. If those can deliver 1080i, they can certainly handle anything CD4 can throw at them.

Any cartridge that came with a shibata stylus should work for ya. I've heard both good and bad on the newer "line array" styli that are allegedly CD4 ready. Your call there.

PS ... I have a table and yes, an AT cartridge with a shibata stylus, but not too many CD4 disks. DO expect to pay a premium price IF you can find them.
 
So, just so I'm straight, the SQ adaptor only comes into play on SQ encoded albums, which can be played on a stereo turntable, CD-4 doesn't require the SQA, but does require the CD-400b and CD-4 cartridge, and all stereo sources should be played through the 'vari matrix' setting for quad effect?

4400_eq130_5020.jpg
 
Richs_Trains said:
So, just so I'm straight, the SQ adaptor only comes into play on SQ encoded albums, which can be played on a stereo turntable, CD-4 doesn't require the SQA, but does require the CD-400b and CD-4 cartridge, and all stereo sources should be played through the 'vari matrix' setting for quad effect?
Click to expand...

Close, but ... SQ is only active and inline when the switch is on SQ Adapter, AND the SQ adapter is installed in the slot. That said, I prefer SQ for stereo recordings over any "matrix" (synthesized) settings I've heard.

Don't quote me, but I seem to remember that QS decodes properly on Matrix IF the dimension control is all the way off.

CD4 does require the external adapter and special cartridge, AND can be finicky on the table as well. If a table is certified as "CD4 ready" that basically means the output is low capacitance. Then again, you can upgrade the cables on most any quality table and get the same thing more times than not. Use component video cables and solder those direct, keeping the length as short as possible. And don't forget the special setup record that has all the test tones needed to calibrate the adapter.

In case you were wondering, "discrete" is direct four channel output such as a tape deck. I use that for my Oppo SACD player along with a separate mono amp to drive a center speaker.

Once again, this is with a Sansui QRX 9001, so your results may vary.
 
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All good advice, sKiZo.
You can also set your OPPO to 'No Center Speaker' and down mix the center to the fronts thus eliminating the mono amp. You would have to be the judge as to which sounds the best.

Tom
 
True dat, but I like the center channel. Adds a much needed punch to the vocals.

Besides, gave me a good excuse to get the amp, right? <G>

eico-hf12a.jpg

I also have a Carver H9AV holographic processor that has a dedicated L+R center out. I feed that to the Eico mono amp to add a center channel to all my other sources, switching back and forth as needed. Both feed a Bose VS100 speaker in the rack.

boombox.jpg


PS ... I did set the Oppo to down mix the sub output. Got big boxes up front, and don' need no steenking sub! <G>
 
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