• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Mark Levinson 332/333/334/335/336 Cap Choices

Dr.J

Active Member
I’d like to upgrade the caps in my ML amp and understand the Cornell Dubilier caps are the highest quality, above the United Chemicon. The original filter caps are 50,000uf/125v and there is a direct Cornell replacement; however, there’s also a 76,000uf/100v Cornell cap available and I understand this larger capacitance will improve bass. My concern is the voltage rating of this cap is 100v, instead of 125v, but I’m told that the amps’ normal operating voltage is 93v; I am concerned about the lower voltage rating (am I cutting it too close) and am wondering if I really need to be?

What is the better, ideal choice: 50,000uf/125v or 76,000uf/100v?

Any and all advice much appreciated.
 
Register to hide this ad
First word of advice.

Disregard what you've heard about changing 50,000uF to 76,000uF improving bass.

I'd leave that thing bone stock. (any) Changes usually hurt the resale value of great equipment.
 
Dont f UP the UF

You can increase voltage (125 to 150v) but don't increase uf. Bad practice. And you can go with Nichicon, Panasonic.

Do you need to recap?
 
The amp has sat for the past ten years, had been used as a center channel amp in an eleborate HT system. The caps are not exhibiting any clear signs of failure, other than the amp sounds a little lifeless (the way my Anthem amp did when its caps dried out). I'm sure that recapping would improve sound quality.

If both Panasonic and Nichicon also make suitable replacements, along with Cornell and United, how can I know which make will sound the best?

Thanks
 
The caps (power supply) in these amps are what fails. I know because I have them as well.
As was reiterated above Only go up in voltage not down and do not change the uf value.

Madrigal runs these things right at the edge and that is why the caps fail in the first place.

Words of wisdom in the previous posts!:yes:
 
Just FYI

You can go with the new (Blue) Nichicons from mouser ...pretty dang nice

Generally standard for the power supply caps - 20%, 105c ..etc

For anything in the signal path IF you can get 10% low esr..that is helpful

I have had great experience, sound quality with the Nichicons and the Panasonics.

Go to mouser.com and look up what you need ..its pretty easy to filter...
 
Thank you, all! What make of replacement caps, juiniorJBL, did you use?

Mine were done by a service center so I am pretty sure that they put stock back in. I would however be interested in what ones fit back inside without modification.:yes:


BTW Thanks Arcorob!! :)
 
Mark Levinson 332/333/336 uses 50000uF/125V for Filter supply and Levinson 335 used 50000uF/100V the original China made Philips were replaced by Levinson service bench with United Chemicon 50000uF/125V caps this is the most expensive cap made by United Chemicon. These UCC caps are okay but they have failed many times.

Cornell Dubilier makes many types 50000uF/125V(51000uF/125V also Super expensive 51000uF/160V with 200V surge at 3 inches in Diameter and 5.8 inches long to fit in Levinson. These caps Cornell only makes when requested.
Nichicon and Panasonic cannot make caps at this high in capacitance and voltage at 3 Inches In diameter and 5.8 Inches long. Also there ESR and Ripple is not very good. Cornell Dubilier caps are used by Ayre/Lamm/McIntosh etc. They have 109 years of experience making capacitors all are made in USA. They have no factory in China.
 
I’d like to upgrade the caps in my ML amp and understand the Cornell Dubilier caps are the highest quality, above the United Chemicon. The original filter caps are 50,000uf/125v and there is a direct Cornell replacement; however, there’s also a 76,000uf/100v Cornell cap available and I understand this larger capacitance will improve bass. My concern is the voltage rating of this cap is 100v, instead of 125v, but I’m told that the amps’ normal operating voltage is 93v; I am concerned about the lower voltage rating (am I cutting it too close) and am wondering if I really need to be?

What is the better, ideal choice: 50,000uf/125v or 76,000uf/100v?

Any and all advice much appreciated.

I realize this is an old post. However, I need some direction/advice. I have an old Levinson No. 336 amp that has a "dead" or non functioning channel. I swapped in a working amp and both channels have sound, so I know the 336 is compromised. It could be as minor as a fuse or something ominous.

History:

The 336 had its caps replaced 2x by Levinson under warranty for a known issue with those caps (bad batch I'm told). Reading the notes on this post, I'd like to swap in CDE caps. However, I spoke to a tech this week (9/27/17) at a Levinson authorized repair shop who said Levinson advises United Chemicon and they are "very good" caps. He said CDE only makes caps in batches and you have to order them ahead of time and you must buy a few sets of them - NOT just one set. That makes CDE even more expensive. I haven't called CDE yet to confirm that. This is why a seller on eBay who was selling a remaining set of CDE's, probably had a few sets and he was now selling his last set. (@$700 sold). The tech said not to change anything on the caps - keep them in stock configuration.

I'm going to call CDE Monday, 10/2/17 to see if:

A) I am compelled to purchase a few sets B) Can I change the voltage to improve sound. C) Price of same

The amp is almost 19 years old and needs to be recapped. It sounded dry, etched, sibilant, brassy and lifeless and the bass was just off before the channel died. I just got fatigued listening to it. I took great care of it - unplugged it often from wall. It has a dedicated 20 amp line.

** The tech nearly jumped when I mentioned an upgrade to a 30 amp power cable (with 30A service) to further improve performance. He said the cable, which is not detachable, is $1k. He advised to forget about it. I can confirm that upgrading the wall power to just a dedicated 20A line, from a shared 15A line, revealed: Incredible dynamics, more volume, more forward midrange (like a Class A Levinson), increased soundstage width and depth, tighter and more detailed bass, quieter background, and just more life than I had ever experienced. Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks guys.

- Rick
 
I had a 333.5 and when it started to sound lifeless, I got rid of it. These amps are stupid expensive to be recapped and only should be messed with by someone who know ML equipment intimately. I have never had an issue putting higher rated uF power caps in any amp. The extra stored energy is important for dynamic transients. You run out of power, you end up with clipping. My 333.5 ran hot as hell and I had it for years, it always ran hot but when it sounded good, it was awesome. Just the heat I knew would be a problem in the long run so a guy with a thin wallet has no business owning an amp they can't afford to repair in the future (at least in my case). The 333.5 was the first amp to replace my tube McIntosh system, after the ML went to a new home, my love affair with WOPL's began and I never seen an end to that
 
I had a 333.5 and when it started to sound lifeless, I got rid of it. These amps are stupid expensive to be recapped and only should be messed with by someone who know ML equipment intimately. I have never had an issue putting higher rated uF power caps in any amp. The extra stored energy is important for dynamic transients. You run out of power, you end up with clipping. My 333.5 ran hot as hell and I had it for years, it always ran hot but when it sounded good, it was awesome. Just the heat I knew would be a problem in the long run so a guy with a thin wallet has no business owning an amp they can't afford to repair in the future (at least in my case). The 333.5 was the first amp to replace my tube McIntosh system, after the ML went to a new home, my love affair with WOPL's began and I never seen an end to that

Levinson or any higher end amp, is expensive to begin with. Recappng is part of the maintenance. The 336 is a powerful amp in the ML 33x line and is sought after today. I plan to repair it and keep it as it sounds amazing and can drive any speaker. Build quality is second to none. However, like car tires, wear out and need replacing. My amp runs pretty warm but not Class A hot.

Thanks for the heads up on the uF. How much higher could you raise it? Also the voltage, what have you seen is a safe limit? Thanks!
 
We've discussed that many large caps are measured at about -10% give or take, today because the manufacturing is much more accurate than in the past. The -10% is still well within the ±20% spec and saves the manufacturer a good bit of coin in material costs for caps. Interested in finding out if the new large caps you install are measured below their marked value but well within spec.
 
We've discussed that many large caps are measured at about -10% give or take, today because the manufacturing is much more accurate than in the past. The -10% is still well within the ±20% spec and saves the manufacturer a good bit of coin in material costs for caps. Interested in finding out if the new large caps you install are measured below their marked value but well within spec.

That makes sense to keep things safe too. The dead channel btw has me worried. I'll snap pics with my phone and post. Also Chemi-Con website eludes to higher end caps they build.
 
rick3803

Yes there was a gentlemen with Levinson 336 that had caps replaced 2 times. First time caps leaked both the 50kuf 125V filter caps and regulator caps 1900uF/150V replaced with United Chemicon caps it also failed. He contacted me about CDE caps It took 10 weeks to make CDE DCMC513M125DP2D (51000uF/125V and 1900uF/250V (DCMC192T250AJ2B they are stocked at Newark.com. The gentlemen said after replacing with CDE DCMC LINE the amp sounds great.

Levinson repair center uses United Chemicon part# E36D1C1CPN503TEE9M (50000uF/125V) and 1900uF/150V for regulator supply. But the rail voltage on regulator supply is 143Volts. You need to increase that to 200V or 250V.
The mouser 50000uF/125V part# 3186GJ503M125DP2A is the same part# Philips used. Since CDE purchased Philips about 14 years ago all of those caps are made by CDE. It is the lowest priced Cornell Dubilier line similar to UCC 50000uF/125V rilled cans.

The CDE Flag ship DCMC line these caps are $40 more than UCC 50000uF/125V and CDE3186 because it has a huge cathode for cooler operation.
rick your surge resistors might be blown also.


I have the service manual for Levinson 336.
 
I have the service manual for Levinson 336.

Don't happen to have or can get one for Levinson 23?

I recently contacted authorized service about a tune-up/refresh on the amp and the quote was astounding. It must have been one of those "we don't really want to work on those anymore" prices.
 
whoaru99

What is wrong with ML-23? It is one of the best sounding Levinson ever made both 20s and 30s were the best designed by Mark.
I sold many sets for ML-23 you need 36000uF/100V at 95C. Diameter must be 3 inches and 5 5/8 long to fit 4 big caps diameter and length must be this. Also 1900uF/200V diameter must be 35mm or 1.37 Inches and 4.1 inches long few small radial caps you are done with over haul.
Thanks. I am waiting from United chemicon factory for reply If they can make the original Sprague 40000uF/100V at 95C It will work for all ML-23 and KRELL KRS and KSA line amps since Sprague was purchased buy United Chemicon. CDE same caps are super expensive.
 
There is nothing obviously wrong, except being roughly 30 years old.

I understand the large caps are not to bad to replace, but that any on the left and right channel boards are a real pain. Have to desolder all the outputs and drivers from the double-sided board just to get the boards out to replace those other caps. It would be nice if that was wrong but pictures seem to suggest that is the case.

Allegedly there are some service updates too (dealing with some resistors??) I read about some years back on Audiogon forum, but I can't find the thread anymore.

Probably should have sent it in several years back when I inquired then. This quote from same shop is 4x that price now.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom