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MartinLogan guts, all over the floor.

PhooBar

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Not sure if DIY repairs go here, but I did anyway.
XqbMXUq.jpg

I recently bought these Mosaic speakers at a local Goodwill. They were scratched, dinged & molested by crayons. I didn't know anything about them, but a quick Google on the phone told me that they were probably worth taking a chance on.

They were originally priced at $150.oo, but I had a few bucks on my GW club card, and I'm old, so $100.oo to me.

It seemed like a good idea, at the time.

When I was checking them out, I noticed that one of the top frames seemed a little floppy and found a few cracks in the plastic. Not a problem for me, I have glue technology.

I got them home & gave everything a good cleaning & inspection. Sure enough, one of the top baffles was cracked in about a hundred pieces.
When I plugged them into the Marantz, they played! They sounded pretty good! This is a win!

But... The planar tweeters on both speakers were dead silent.

I gotta fix this. Blame it on my OCD.

Disassembly was easy, using Phillips screwdrivers, Allen wrenches & small pliers.
I kept all of the little broken plastic pieces and tossed the screws into a handy bowl.

Here's what I got:
ozK8OC2.jpg

3 1/2" planar magnetic tweeters.

7WNFY7X.jpg

8" planar magnetic mid-range.

TsvS52G.jpg

6 1/2" aluminum cone woofer.
I left these in because they're working OK, & they seem to be glued into the cabinet. They did not want to come out.

But I did take off the bottoms, just to see what's inside.
Z9cnPOf.jpg

These cabinets are one-inch-thick, molded MDF and it looks like two inches thick on the fronts. When you knock on them, they do not resonate. At all.

KnowULm.jpg

Crossover board, port tube, & you can just see the cast aluminum-frame on the woofer, way back there.


Now for the plastic stuff.
xYj7Fbb.jpg

The upper frames (where the tweeter & mid are mounted) are two-piece, molded black plastic.
Both speakers had cracks, but one side was just falling apart.
jAJN4A1.jpg


Personal opinion: I think they went a little light on the design. The plastic cracks & shatters far too easily.
I understand that they were never intended to be man-handled, but these things are fragile.
Keep children & ham-handed movers away from them.


Considering that the Mosaics were sick when I rescued them, I can't honestly comment on how they sound. Not yet, at least.

I'll check out the tweeters by switcheroo testing with the mids. If the tweeters still don't work, they're bad, if they do work, the problem is in the wires or the crossovers.

Result: Both tweeters are not tweeting, regardless of how I move the wires around.
It's nice to know the mids & crossovers are working OK though.

Funny thing.
When I Googled 'MartinLogan replacement tweeters', this popped up.
272-122_HR_0.default.jpg


Damned near identical replacements. $40.oo each.
There's even one customer that claims to have used them on his Mosaics.

So I now have a solution to the tweeter issue.

But wait...
Right below that listing, was this one.
272-126_HR_0.default.jpg

Identical to the originals.

So out of curiosity, I looked for '6 1/2" Aluminum cone speakers'.
264-1086_HR_0.default.jpg

The dust cover is an 'outie' vs ML's 'innie', but everything else seems to be the same.

Interesting.

I've got some plastic repairing to do. Will post more later on how that goes.
 
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Just want to point out, those are not electrostatic speakers, they're planar (or possibly AMT; Martin-Logan has used both types). Unless it plugs into the wall, in almost all cases it's not an ESL.

Also, Martin-Logan electrostatic drivers (and pretty much all ESLs made in the last 30 years or so) are push-pull, meaning there are (at least) three wires to every driver.
 
A very worthwhile project!

I'm not an expert, but there are a range of different types of plastic glues: various solvent based, epoxies, etc.
I find when I can find the right solvent based glue, things are generally golden.

Even fragile parts can be reatttached to near original strength. I just used Scigrip 16 [which says works on Thermoplastics, Petg (polyethylene Terephthalate Glycol), Cab (cellulose Acetate Butyrate), Plastic, Polystyrene, Polycarbonate], on an old plastic chassis and two small tabs, 1/16" thick are back in action.

But some plastics don't work with solvents, or at least with the one's I have.
 
A very worthwhile project!

I'm not an expert, but there are a range of different types of plastic glues: various solvent based, epoxies, etc.
I find when I can find the right solvent based glue, things are generally golden.

Even fragile parts can be reatttached to near original strength. I just used Scigrip 16 [which says works on Thermoplastics, Petg (polyethylene Terephthalate Glycol), Cab (cellulose Acetate Butyrate), Plastic, Polystyrene, Polycarbonate], on an old plastic chassis and two small tabs, 1/16" thick are back in action.

But some plastics don't work with solvents, or at least with the one's I have.

Regular old JB Weld has bonded with everything I've ever used it on. Just scuff with emery paper, clean with alcohol & lay it on thick. There's also an epoxy putty called PC-7 that has worked very well to re-build missing screw attach points.
 
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Just want to point out, those are not electrostatic speakers, they're planar (or possibly AMT; Martin-Logan has used both types). Unless it plugs into the wall, in almost all cases it's not an ESL.

Also, Martin-Logan electrostatic drivers (and pretty much all ESLs made in the last 30 years or so) are push-pull, meaning there are (at least) three wires to every driver.

Fixed it. TIL.
I know ****-all about these things, but I'm gonna take 'em apart & educate myself. Who knows, they might be fixable.
 
Now, about those tweeters.

While the glue cures on the first plastic frame, I'm itching to take apart those planar magnetic tweeters.
I want to learn about how they're put together, what went wrong and why. For Science!
So...

Yl5Fxj5.jpg

I taped over the grilles, punched out the pop rivets & drilled off the heads.
Viola!
bftQUiS.jpg

Three neodymium bar magnets epoxied into each half, insulated by a layer of --- (whatever that is).
The speaker membrane is sandwiched between the steel halves.
Conductive foil traces were bonded or etched, onto the speaker membrane. That's where the problems are.
se8v0Pt.jpg

It looks like the foil traces shorted out.
RTWjDq0.png

I suspect that the tweeters got hot, causing the speaker membrane to soften up & deform.
The traces either detached, or melted into each other & shorted out.
I'm glad they didn't take the crossover with them when they died.

If you look at the picture, you'll see that they used Scotch tape along the sides to hold the speaker membrane in place & insulate the foil from the steel.
This doesn't look all that complicated.

I've got a nice little craft cutter that I use to make obsolete gaskets.
s-l640.jpg

I wonder if I can reproduce that foil pattern & bond it between two sheets of really thin kapton film?
I think I can...

ReFjspt.png

I'm gonna go see how the epoxy is doing.
It might be a couple of days before I get back to this.

Thanks for the feedback & suggestions! I'll take all the help I can get.
 
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Now, about those tweeters.

While the glue cures on the first plastic frame, I'm itching to take apart those planar magnetic tweeters.
I want to learn about how they're put together, what went wrong and why. For Science!
So...

Yl5Fxj5.jpg

I taped over the grilles, punched out the pop rivets & drilled off the heads.
Viola!
bftQUiS.jpg

Three neodymium bar magnets epoxied into each half, insulated by a layer of --- (whatever that is).
The speaker membrane is sandwiched between the steel halves.
Conductive foil traces were bonded or etched, onto the speaker membrane. That's where the problems are.
se8v0Pt.jpg

It looks like the foil traces shorted out.
RTWjDq0.png

I suspect that the tweeters got hot, causing the speaker membrane to soften up & deform.
The traces either detached, or melted into each other & shorted out.
I'm glad they didn't take the crossover with them when they died.

If you look at the picture, you'll see that they used Scotch tape along the sides to hold the speaker membrane in place & insulate the foil from the steel.
This doesn't look all that complicated.

I've got a nice little craft cutter that I use to make obsolete gaskets.
s-l640.jpg

I wonder if I can reproduce that foil pattern & bond it between two sheets of really thin kapton film?
I think I can...

ReFjspt.png

I'm gonna go see how the epoxy is doing.
It might be a couple of days before I get back to this.

Thanks for the feedback & suggestions! I'll take all the help I can get.
Looks a lot like the membranes in Infinity EMIT tweeters. They look like this as well after you blow a tweeter. Been there, done that, etc. LOL

Is no one selling replacements?
 
I believe Magneplanar drivers are also built more or less this way.

wonder if the diaphragm is available new. Not really much else to fail there.
 
Tweeters are BG NEO3 planars. Parts Express sells the original for 96 (Have the back cups on them, but can be removed), and GRS replacement version for 40.
Meniscus has the original NEO8 PDR midranges for 209 each. Parts express has a GRS look alike version for 63, but It is 8 ohms .
 
As Steve said above… and probably the most important item is the Crossover as these planar drivers are great but only if can meld them together due their frequency response characteristics.
 
Is no one selling replacements?

Replacements? Where's the fun in that? I'm gonna try to home-brew my own with some kapton film and gold-plated silver foil.
The original traces were silver-plated copper, btw.

Probably not, otherwise they would have been screwed together rather than riveted.

Exactly. I'll be using screws to put these back together.

Does anybody know what the black cloth is, covering the magnets?
One side of these has a hole scorched through it & I want to use the right kind of stuff to replace it
.
 
The PDR version, as used in the ML's, is not quite the same as the standard non-PDR versions. I think it has do do with increased horizontal dispersion of the PDR. GR Research also sells a version of this driver and offers a user DIY mod to make it behave like the PDR. Just by adding some coarse yarn into each side to narrow the radiation pattern and extend the dispersion. The GR Research versions have some upgrades as well. He has them made with Kapton film which has higher thermal limits.
https://gr-research.com/product/gr-neo-3/
 
Now for the plastic stuff.
xYj7Fbb.jpg

The upper frames (where the tweeter & mid are mounted) are two-piece, molded black plastic.
Both speakers had cracks, but one side was just falling apart.
jAJN4A1.jpg


Personal opinion: I think they went a little light on the design. The plastic cracks & shatters far too easily....I've got some plastic repairing to do. Will post more later on how that goes.

Check with Ron for parts, at the following:

service@martinlogan.com

He's great to work with, and replacement parts costs are fairly reasonable.

Good luck.
 
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If you look at the picture, you'll see that they used Scotch tape along the sides to hold the speaker membrane in place & insulate the foil from the steel.
This doesn't look all that complicated.

I've got a nice little craft cutter that I use to make obsolete gaskets.
s-l640.jpg

I wonder if I can reproduce that foil pattern & bond it between two sheets of really thin kapton film?
I think I can...

ReFjspt.png

I'm gonna go see how the epoxy is doing.
It might be a couple of days before I get back to this.

Thanks for the feedback & suggestions! I'll take all the help I can get.

If this works, let me know. I have a dead, completely unobtainium Infinity Kappa EMIT-N car audio tweeter that needs a diaphragm. I keep an eye out for EMIT-Ns for sale, hoping a single will drift by. I don't want to talk about how long I've been looking.
 
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