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MC275 Bass issues

RE: "Damping Factor"

Dampening factor is not the issue but power and current are. My MI 200 amps have a lower dampening factor and will drive any woofer made but they have more current and power than the MC275. Running two MC275s in mono would probably solve the issue. More current is needed for your woofers than one MC275 is delivering. Please try a simple speaker cable as an experiment.
Using a stereo powered sub with a crossover before the inputs of the MC275 will work very well as outlined above. Crossing over at 80 Hz would relieve the MC275 of the bottom three octaves just like a home theater set up. Thanks, Ron-C
"In loudspeaker systems, the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and amplifier, describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system. It is usually used in the context of low frequency driver behavior, and especially so in the case of electro-dynamic drivers which use a magnetic motor to generate the forces which move the diaphragm.

Speaker diaphragms have mass, and their surrounds have stiffness. Together these form a resonant system and the mechanical cone resonance may be excited by electrical signals (eg, pulses) at audio frequencies. But a driver with a voice coil is also a current generator since it has a coil attached to cone and suspension and that coil is immersed in a magnetic field. For every motion the coil makes, it will generate a current which will be seen by any electrically attached equipment, such as an amplifier. In fact, the amp's output circuitry will be the main electrical load on the 'voice coil current generator'. If that load has low resistance, the current will be larger and the voice coil will be more strongly forced to decelerate. A high damping factor (which requires low output impedance at the amplifier output) very rapidly damps unwanted cone movements induced by the mechanical resonance of the speaker, acting as the equivalent of a 'brake' on the voice coil motion (just as a short circuit across the terminals of a rotary electrical generator will make it very hard to turn). It is generally, though not universally, thought that tighter control of voice coil motion is desirable as it is believed to contribute to better quality sound.

A high damping factor indicates that an amplifier will have greater control over the movement of the speaker cone, particularly in the bass region near the resonant frequency of the driver's mechanical resonance." Wikipedia (search 'damping factor' for more info)

Tube amps have high output circuit impedance because of the combination of power output tube and output transformer. They tend to have low damping factors.

Solid state amps are just the opposite, and tend to have higd damping factors (usually much higher than needed for good woofer control, but whatever ;-)

Solid state amps such as McIntosh, with output transformers (autoformers,) have damping factors lower than pure solid state outputs, but higher than tube outputs, and usually more than adequate for providing good bass (woofer control.)
 
nsgarch, we are too far apart on this. Trying to understand each other or explain it further is neither beneficial to the other members nor worth the effort involved. Let's leave it at that and "agree to disagree". I am sure Ron-C who works for McIntosh appreciates your educational, thorough and informative post as well.
 
Dampening Factor is the output impedance of the amp divided by the impedance of the speaker. 10 feet or so of speaker wire will swamp this so it not so relevant or mysterious as it is made out to be. Having an output transformer in a tube amp with a high turns ratio will always result in a lower dampening factor than a transistor amp.
I once was at a dealer show and we ended using the MC275 to drive the B&W 800D speakers since they had sold the big Mc amp the afternoon of the event. When we set the system up the staff was very sceptical that it would sound good. Everything was connected including the mega buck speaker wire and it was underwhelming at best. I had their installer make me up two fifteen runs of 16-2 plenum in wall cable and what do you know the MC275 drove the big speakers fine. One of the salesmen said he had never heard them sound better at the volumes the MC275 was capable of. We were using the MDA/MCD1000 and the C1000/T1000 preamp in the system.
Horses for courses I would say.

thanks,
Ron-C
 
nsgarch, we are too far apart on this. Trying to understand each other or explain it further is neither beneficial to the other members nor worth the effort involved. Let's leave it at that and "agree to disagree". I am sure Ron-C who works for McIntosh appreciates your educational, thorough and informative post as well.
The original poster suspected that his "problem" with bloated bass had to do with his 275 amp. Since I didn't think so (and apparently neither does Ron) I tried to offer other causes elsewhere in his system. All my comments are the result of my doing a little research. They are not my own opinions or conjecture. Anyone can educate themselves on these subjects by doing a little reading -- we live in the age of Google and all knowledge is easily available to any of us.
 
The original poster suspected that his "problem" with bloated bass had to do with his 275 amp. Since I didn't think so (and apparently neither does Ron) I tried to offer other causes elsewhere in his system. All my comments are the result of my doing a little research. They are not my own opinions or conjecture. Anyone can educate themselves on these subjects by doing a litle reading -- we live in the age of Google and all knowledge is easily available to any of us.
Besides Google, I also have an electronics background with a degree and have successfully designed and built crossovers and speakers for many years in the past. Like I said, I am not going to bore our readers any further with this topic. :boring:
 
I am not going to bore our readers any further with this topic. :boring:

I for one have not been bored. Not many Threads with Posts on the forum with input from two highly knowledgeable members regarding a funtamental but important audio concept, even though they may not totally agree. Add their input to that of ron-c and you have a worthwhile and informative read. Most of the Threads and Post herein are truly boring with little to no value.
 
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