McIntosh 2105 vs Cary SLI-80

[dsd-7]

I am currently using a McIntosh 2105 amp with an Adcom gfp-555 preamp. Great amp! Despite loving this vintage SS amp, tubes have always inticed me...possibly because I have always owned SS equipment. Lately, I have been contemplating the idea of selling this combo and putting the funds towards buying an integrated tube amp...specifically the Cary SLI-80. Is there anyone out there who could give me any input/advice here. I have been wanting to get into tubes for a while, and the Cary looks really nice. I can't afford to buy a nice Mac tube amp and preamp at this time....or else I would be going for a pair of MC 30's and a tube preamp. What do you guys think?

 

[MX117.MC7150]

Get the SLI-80 before selling the MC2015. Not everyone makes the leap from SS to tubes. Or get a McIntosh C220 preamp to go with your MC2105. Probably about the same cost as the SLI-80 on the used market.

 

[dsd-7]

I would like to go ahead and get the Cary first...however, I'm not sure I can swing it at moment. I would LOVE to have a McIntosh C220...been wanting one of those for quite a while now. I hear they are really great preamps. I'll bet one would sound great with my old 2105. As of right now, I couldn't buy a C220 without selling some gear first....Which is why I was considering buying the Cary SLI-80 integrated. Those Cary's look really nice, but I'm not sure if they can win me over from my vintage Mac. I'm gonna continue doing research on the SLI-80's. It seems there is not a large amount of info out there on these. :worried:

 

[c_dk]

Have you had your MC2105 freshened up? Even if it was one of the last made it is almost 40 years old. Have you listened to it with a better preamp? Back in the day Adcom preamps did not show McIntosh amps in the best fashion mostly because of their low, barely 1 volt output. MC2105s really need a preamp that can output at least 2 volts to realy shine. Mac made it easier with latter models that had a variable input sensitivity.

 

[dsd-7]

Have you had your MC2105 freshened up? Even if it was one of the last made it is almost 40 years old. Have you listened to it with a better preamp? Back in the day Adcom preamps did not show McIntosh amps in the best fashion mostly because of their low, barely 1 volt output. MC2105s really need a preamp that can output at least 2 volts to realy shine. Mac made it easier with latter models that had a variable input sensitivity.

Yes, I had the 2105 serviced last year by a certified Mcintosh tech, and it really does sound great to my ears. It also has a couple service tags from Mr. Dave O'Brian back in the seventies :thmbsp: The first service tag is from August 1973, so my 2105 is an old one. Good point about the Adcom preamps. I didn't think of this until now. I really am happy with my 2105, but the world of tubes keeps tempting me haha. The Cary integrated seems like a good way to get started with budget in mind. I would go Mcintosh all the way if I could afford it.

 

[MX117.MC7150]

Hmmmm.......... service means they check it out and make sure it is 'operating' correctly and meets factory spec's. Likely means that it was NOT updated with modern caps (which get dry and can sound bad). They simply run it through its paces and see if it meets spec. If it does, gets their seal-of-approval and is out the door. Does not mean it can sound anything like it is capable of sounding. If it has not been done, then your MC2105 definitely needs a recap with modern audio-grade caps.

That said, have a friend who uses an SLI-70 (predecessor to the -80) and it is a very nice sounding integrated amp. But, you'll notice what I'm listening to and it is not Cary.

 

[c_dk]

I will self critisize....until recently bench testing a Mac amp to confirm meeting factory specs and if not then going in to replace faulty parts was the stardard operating procedure for this Mac guy gong back to the 70s. It was what I was taught by factory people lke DOB back in the day.

It is 35 years later and doing that procedure is proving to be leaving these units not at their full potential.

Improved S/N is something we can and have measured but I believe there are some other factors, which should be measurable but I have not yet got my head around it.

Just last week refreshed a C35....and a MCD7005. Stunning...

What parts did your tech refresh?

 

[dsd-7]

Hmmm, good call guys. The service receipt said "restoration/calibration". To be honest, I did not question what was replaced. My fault...I should have gotten more details. He only charged me $150, so I doubt much was replaced. It sounds great to my ears and there have been no issues with the amp whatsoever. However, this talk about a full re-cap has got me wondering if the old amp could sound better. Maybe its capable of more??

 

[c_dk]

First off I am not criticizing your tech....I am criticizing me. For him to clean the controls, pull the boards and clean the contacts and replace the lamps could easily run 150.00 depending on your local labor rates. This is what we were taught... I worked maybe a dozen amp clinics with DOB and this was what we were taught to do. We followed his example.

Things have changed ...these units deserve to be restored...and it does take a bit more than $150.00 to do it.

I do not as I stated understand all the reasons why they sound so much better...but here is to learning why.

Years ago within a conversation with Sid Coderman (VP Engineering) he was as excited by engineering's new distortion analyzers as a kid at Christmas. They could finally explore distortion levels below .00x with some certainty.

I am sure with time, more input and verifications these refreshing will reveal more also.

 

[dsd-7]

I appreciate your honest criticism. It makes sense when thinking logically. The electronics in these old Macs are 40-50 years old, and would benefit from replacement. When you guys were learning how to work on these, the electronics were not old and only needed the broken parts replaced. That is really cool how you were able to learn under greats such as Dave O'Brian. I consider my local tech to have done a fine job for $150. The amp sounds great. If I end up keeping the Mc2105 and staying with SS, it may end up getting a full restoration service. I'm guessing that could push $400ish??

 

[c_dk]

On the bench right now....multicap is OK but withl everything else done..... trying to decide whether to stuff old or use a sub board.

 

[CountD]

It's all in the pre, baby, all in the pre...

 

[MX117.MC7150]

On the bench right now....multicap is OK but withl everything else done..... trying to decide whether to stuff old or use a sub board.

You will never get those four caps in the can without stacking them or drilling holes on the top. Personally, I think the small board is the better solution since they are not out in the open. Are you recapping the PS board?

If I end up keeping the Mc2105 and staying with SS, it may end up getting a full restoration service. I'm guessing that could push $400ish??

With shipping, that is about right. You will want to purchase new boxes from Audio Classics or the factory to insure it gets there and back in good shape. Where are you located. Maybe there is a good tech located near by and you won't have to ship.

 

[c_dk]

Nichicon introduced these CS series caps for I believe thin panel power supplies a year ago....Mouser started stocking them 4 or 5 months ago. I have been test using them as added on replacements for multicaps now for 3 or 4 months with good results. The pencils with 105 temp seem utterly stuffable.

 

[dsd-7]

You will never get those four caps in the can without stacking them or drilling holes on the top. Personally, I think the small board is the better solution since they are not out in the open. Are you recapping the PS board?

With shipping, that is about right. You will want to purchase new boxes from Audio Classics or the factory to insure it gets there and back in good shape. Where are you located. Maybe there is a good tech located near by and you won't have to ship.

I am located in Gainesville, FL. For the full restoration, I will probably take it to a shop in Tampa called "Pro Audio". I can drive down there round trip for around $40 in gas...so its a no brainer if I decide to do the restoration. Those guys are great! The amp just sounds so good and I hate to pull it out of the rack. Probably gonna wait a bit.

 

[MX117.MC7150]

Nichicon introduced these CS series caps for I believe thin panel power supplies a year ago....Mouser started stocking them 4 or 5 months ago. I have been test using them as added on replacements for multicaps now for 3 or 4 months with good results. The pencils with 105 temp seem utterly stuffable.

NIce. Thanks for the tip. Had not seen those before.

 

[dsd-7]

Merry Christmas everyone! Hopefully Santa brought everyone some nice things. I have recently been using my Mcintosh MC2105 with a freshly recapped/restored C29 preamp and am really enjoying this combo. However, the Cary SLI-80 is still tempting me. Do you guys think I would be wise by selling my Mcintosh 2105/C29 combo in order to get into a tube system via the Cary.

I have also looked at the Cary 300sei but am kinda worried about the meager 15watts/channel. I would definitely have to change speakers if I went with the 300sei.

So I'm basically looking for support or advice as I can't really audition these Cary units. Please let me know if you have any input whatsoever. Thanks to all and Merry Christmas!!!

 

[Rich Andrews]

I won't have a SET amp for a variety of reasons. I looked at the Cary and other SETs. Long on promise. Short on delivery. YMMV. I was raised on tube amps so I do know what tube amps sound like.

Power output is usually an issue in some SETs. Drive it with a CD player and a recording that has a wide dynamic range and it will be overdriven. Trying to listen at concert hall levels isn't going to happen. 15 watts is pretty limiting

The SLI-80 is respectable in the power department so power putput is not an issue. It is interesting that Cary does not spec out distortion levels. 80 db signal to noise isn't much.

That leaves the heat issue. Class A amps run HOT HOT HOT!

If I were you I would go listen to one preferably in a A-B test with a good McIntosh amp. Maybe a SET is for you. It certainly does not meet my requirements in an amplifier.

 

[Rich Andrews]

One more bit of data that I have gleaned from years of listening to many different amps and speakers. There is no perfect amplifier or speaker. Everything is a compromise.

 

[MX117.MC7150]

Made the mistake of purchasing speakers that my tube amps were not happy with (MC75 60th Anniv) and ended up selling the amps. My biggest audio mistake. Should have sold the speakers. Your MC2105, if the PS has been recapped and running well, should make 150wpc on the bench and will have considerably more grunt on the bottom than an SLI-80. As stated above, suggest you listen before you purchase.