McIntosh ML-1C (4 brand new in box from 1977) do I refoam or not?

[RHopper1964]

First time here guy and gals. So I am just trying to get your best opinion here. I just picked up (4) McIntosh ML-1C speakers that are brand new in the box from 1977. And in checking them out to make sure they were brand new and not used, I noticed the foam is destroyed from age. The speaker cabinets are "Mint" and were truly never used. Still in the plastic from the manufacturer. And these were at the very end of the run by the serial numbers bl9817 to 20 of a possible 9999. And no one knows if they even ran them to the end because of being discontinued after a 7 yr run. And do have the intended 1D model cabinets that were never produced, with the steel plates covering where the lights would have been. And also the shipping boxes marked 1D and restamped by hand as 1C. Should I leave them as is in their original state, or refoam them and change that original state? No one else will have 4 of these still brand new in the box so they are unique for sure. Any advise?

 

[E-Stat]

Suggest you post on the Mac forum for best advice.

 

[goodolpg]

If you want this moved, click on the blue report thingie at the bottom of your post and ask a mod to move this.
Don't start another thread.
Someone will need to refoam them, whether it's you or the next owner. In this case it's a necessary change from the original state, not a gratuitous one.
Are you handy enough to refoam them yourself? That can be done relatively cheaply. It would cost double or triple to have a shop do it.
IMO there is no shame in feeling it's something you'd rather have a shop do.
Others will disagree.

 

[Nat]

I can't help but suspect you haven't refoamed speakers before. Otherwise, you'd probably be asking for reasons not to, rather than asking for reasons to do so. Apologies if I'm wrong.
You think, and you may be right, that new, in box, Macintosh speakers might be valuable. I suspect that prospective buyers would like them to be ready to go when they arrive, and I also suspect they would want them done right, with the correct surrounds, and documentation. So if you aren't experienced, using a known shop might be worth the otherwise extravagant expense.

 

[eiraved]

First time here guy and gals.

I'd say "Welcome to AK", but it's more like "Welcome back to AK"! Member since 2013!

 

[Dswankey]

... I just picked up (4) McIntosh ML-1C speakers that are brand new in the box from 1977. Should I leave them as is in their original state, or refoam them and change that original state? No one else will have 4 of these still brand new in the box so they are unique for sure...

Suggest you post on the Mac forum for best advice.

 

[RHopper1964]

I'd say "Welcome to AK", but it's more like "Welcome back to AK"! Member since 2013!

Actually D&S as he's primarily concerned with selling them

I'm just really seeking advice as to should I tamper with them being brand new old stock and refoam them. I'm here to get everyone's best thoughts as to what might be better. Sometimes it's worse to do any repairs on something as rare as these and might lose value, IDK.

 

[RHopper1964]

If you want this moved, click on the blue report thingie at the bottom of your post and ask a mod to move this.
Don't start another thread.
Someone will need to refoam them, whether it's you or the next owner. In this case it's a necessary change from the original state, not a gratuitous one.
Are you handy enough to refoam them yourself? That can be done relatively cheaply. It would cost double or triple to have a shop do it.
IMO there is no shame in feeling it's something you'd rather have a shop do.
Others will disagree.

I could do the refoam. But the problem is once you do this, the new thickness and or rigidity will Chand the original sound as no one sells exactly what foam thickness and strength was used back in 1977. So the variables to the original sound stage and dynamics will be affected. Then you're taking to need a new cross over built to compensate for this. Thus now changing the who original brand new state of value. But thanks for the feedback. I'm just stuck on this one, no right or wrong answers I guess. Seems like this happened a lot to these MAC speakers as they may have used a light weight thin foam surround. And no way of getting those specs today unless you research their history hand written books from back then.

 

[62caddy]

Were these the four that had sat unsold for quite some time in the Pittsburgh PA area? I had a hard time figuring out why they lingered so long if truly NIB unopened at the price which seemed fair.

As to your main question- there is no reason whatsoever to start replacing foams until the need arises. Friend of mine purchased a pair of ML-2C at an estate sale within the last which also showed no signs of the surrounds ever having been touched. The speakers are absolutely pristine. The only items that might need replacement due to age are the capacitors in the crossover networks.

 

[MuseChaser]

Is the question, "Should I refoam them to maximize my profit as my only intent is to resell them?" ...

Or.. " I collect vintage equipment and plan to display these as part of my collection, but do not plan on listening to them. Should I refoam them? "....

Or..

" I really want to hear these. Should I refoam them? "

My own opinions as to the answers would be, in order..

1.Probably refoam them, although I have no experience in buying something for the purpose of profit so I don't really know.

2. Leave as is.

3. Of course refoam them. I like this option best!

 

[twiiii]

If the foam doesn't feel rigid or soft and mushy and the cone spring back and forth after being modulated by a 9 volt battery and you don't here any rubbing I would say your in luck. But all the surrounds fail after about 10 to 15 years so call Steve Rowell at Audio Classics and have him send you 4 repaired woofers under the exchange program. If the midranges have foam they will need to be replaced too or exchanged. I order surrounds from Midwestern Speaker Company and refoam ML series and XR series for friends now days. I have been doing it since the late 70's. Remove the woofer and check and make sure the crossover is pristine and the capacitors are yellow. If they are black they all need to be replaced. If you are going to keep them for yourself I would trash the orange dome tweeter and the little cone super tweeter, and order Roger Russel's crossover update and the Morel Tweeter and Midrange Tweeter dome kit. This will increase the power handling of the super tweeter over 10 fold and increase the midrange capability to. Making the ML-iC out perform a ML-2s down to 40 HZ. Make sure you have the MQ 101 equalizer for the speakers too as the bass won't be properly balanced unless you install the speaker near or in corners. This applies whether the speakers have been upgraded or not. You will also want to replace the plastic clips that hold the grills on with brass ones. I'll dig up the info on them if you are interested. You will also need plumbers putty to reseal the drivers if you remove them from the enclosure.

 

[62caddy]

Gutting a NIB set of time capsules with all kinds gratuitous mods and unnecessary repairs is about as barbaric as anything I can think of and I guarantee Steve Rowell himself would be the first to agree.

Leave play time for the run-of-the-mill scratch & denters- not perfectly preserved originals.

 

[RHopper1964]

If the foam doesn't feel rigid or soft and mushy and the cone spring back and forth after being modulated by a 9 volt battery and you don't here any rubbing I would say your in luck. But all the surrounds fail after about 10 to 15 years so call Steve Rowell at Audio Classics and have him send you 4 repaired woofers under the exchange program. If the midranges have foam they will need to be replaced too or exchanged. I order surrounds from Midwestern Speaker Company and refoam ML series and XR series for friends now days. I have been doing it since the late 70's. Remove the woofer and check and make sure the crossover is pristine and the capacitors are yellow. If they are black they all need to be replaced. If you are going to keep them for yourself I would trash the orange dome tweeter and the little cone super tweeter, and order Roger Russel's crossover update and the Morel Tweeter and Midrange Tweeter dome kit. This will increase the power handling of the super tweeter over 10 fold and increase the midrange capability to. Making the ML-iC out perform a ML-2s down to 40 HZ. Make sure you have the MQ 101 equalizer for the speakers too as the bass won't be properly balanced unless you install the speaker near or in corners. This applies whether the speakers have been upgraded or not. You will also want to replace the plastic clips that hold the grills on with brass ones. I'll dig up the info on them if you are interested. You will also need plumbers putty to reseal the drivers if you remove them from the enclosure. View attachment 2614879

Thanks for all the info. I think that I will just leave them intact for now without any mods. I did pull one out to inspect and the foam is cracked and slit due to age. But the cabinet was mint. I can get the 12" woofers done by a professional local shop for $45 ea, and the 8" for $35 ea. Would be more costly than doing myself.

 

[RHopper1964]

Is the question, "Should I refoam them to maximize my profit as my only intent is to resell them?" ...

Or.. " I collect vintage equipment and plan to display these as part of my collection, but do not plan on listening to them. Should I refoam them? "....

Or..

" I really want to hear these. Should I refoam them? "

My own opinions as to the answers would be, in order..

1.Probably refoam them, although I have no experience in buying something for the purpose of profit so I don't really know.

2. Leave as is.

3. Of course refoam them. I like this option best!

Thanks for the options...lol

 

[RHopper1964]

In that case I'd sell them as is and let the new owner make the restoration to his/her/its/their/thems/thoses liking.

I agree....

 

[RHopper1964]

Were these the four that had sat unsold for quite some time in the Pittsburgh PA area? I had a hard time figuring out why they lingered so long if truly NIB unopened at the price which seemed fair.

As to your main question- there is no reason whatsoever to start replacing foams until the need arises. Friend of mine purchased a pair of ML-2C at an estate sale within the last which also showed no signs of the surrounds ever having been touched. The speakers are absolutely pristine. The only items that might need replacement due to age are the capacitors in the crossover networks.

These were not in Pittsburgh, but about an hour from there. And I did open to check out and the foam is cracked and split from age. The cabinets are mint factory new, not a mark on them. Wrapped in plastic and with owners manuals. So they will need new foam. And the caps should still be good as they were not the electrolytic type used today. I called MAC Labs and spoke with them. But a visual inspection of them would be needed just to make sure. Although if I were buying them to keep, I would replace them regardless myself just to get the best sound out of them possible.

 

[62caddy]

These were not in Pittsburgh, but about an hour from there. And I did open to check out and the foam is cracked and split from age. The cabinets are mint factory new, not a mark on them. Wrapped in plastic and with owners manuals. So they will need new foam. And the caps should still be good as they were not the electrolytic type used today. I called MAC Labs and spoke with them. But a visual inspection of them would be needed just to make sure. Although if I were buying them to keep, I would replace them regardless myself just to get the best sound out of them possible.

In that case, I would photograph the speakers with the original surrounds, then have Audio Classics replace them. Unless they're going in a museum, the speakers will be far more marketable with the surrounds replaced.

**Four Mc ML-1Cs an hour from Pitt- has to be the same CL listing I saw.

 

[twiiii]

I forgot to mention Audio Classics as the only Source for Roger Russell designed up dates, Morel drivers and mounting plates. They also have updates for the XR series too. I almost bought 4 XR-7 to stack and update but after considering the over all cost I bought a pair of XR 28's instead. The main reason after hearing the low distortion and more advanced woofers and mids of the XRT drivers and the increased clarity I just could not go back to the ML and early XR series. I am not a point source speaker fan and never have been after hear the AR-2 and AR-3 in the early 60's.

Make sure if locals do the re-foaming that the diameter of the foam roll is the same as the originals, If they are not the results will compromise the freq. response of each driver and handicap the dynamic range.