McIntosh MX110Z and C20 (later model)

[Alfmonster]

Hi,

I've been wanting to get a tube preamp for quite some time and am now able to go either way between an MX110Z or a c20. Both have been looked over and meets or exceeds original specs. Perhaps what is causing a pause from going with the mx110z is the cosmetics. The gold lettering is partially rubbed off, and the front glass has some issues -- but mechanically, it is solid. Were I to go with the MX110z, is the front glass simple to change out?

With those who have lived with or listened to each -- any advice as to which one you preferred? The preamp would be paired with an MC225. I currently have an MR78 for an FM radio (which I listen to quite a bit) and a c27 for a preamp.

If I go with an MX110Z, then both would probably be sold. However, if I go with a c20, then just the c27.

Thanks so much in advance!

 

[62caddy]

For the best performance and reliability (a/k/a keeping hassles to a minimum), I would stay with the C27 & MR78.

 

[Alfmonster]

For the best performance and reliability (a/k/a keeping hassles to a minimum), I would stay with the C27 & MR78.

Hi @62caddy — Are the c20 and mx110z finicky and intense upkeep? I can’t remember which post, but I had read you had an mx110z — has it proven to be a difficult upkeep? In terms of sound for both the radio and phono — was there a difference to say a solid state preamp/tuner?

 

[62caddy]

Hi @62caddy — Are the c20 and mx110z finicky and intense upkeep? I can’t remember which post, but I had read you had an mx110z — have you enjoyed it? In terms of sound for both the radio and phono — was there a difference to say a solid state preamp/tuner?

Tube equipment needs more care in general; same for equipment the older it is. Thus the combination tube equipment with advanced age is inherently going to be the most needy. Besides that, the C20's volume control is particularly complex and problematic and I can tell you the MR78 will run rings around the MX110's tuner section - not so much sonically but its ability to deal with weak stations and/or reception issues, ie: selectivity, rejection etc, in addition to being less likely to go out of alignment, which is affected by tube degradation in a tube tuner.

In the C27, you have one of the best no-frills McIntosh preamplifiers making it simpler to service with better reliability whose specs will keep up with all but the most expensive of today's preamps - which may or may not even perform any better depending on the rest of equipment in the system and the recorded material.

 

[Alfmonster]

Tube equipment needs more care in general; same for equipment the older it is. Thus the combination tube equipment with advanced age is inherently going to be the most needy. Besides that, the C20's volume control is particularly complex and problematic and I can tell you the MR78 will run rings around the MX110's tuner section - not so much sonically but its ability to deal with weak stations and/or reception issues, ie: selectivity, rejection etc, in addition to being less likely to go out of alignment, which is affected by tube degradation in a tube tuner.

In the C27, you have one of the best no-frills McIntosh preamplifiers making it simpler to service with better reliability whose specs will keep up with all but the most expensive of today's preamps - which may or may not even perform any better depending on the rest of equipment in the system and the recorded material.

That is really great to know actually. Thank you @62caddy! Makes a lot of sense - didn’t realize about the volume issues on the c20. Maybe I’ll hold off on the preamp. Aside from the upkeep, perhaps for future reference, how was the sound of the mx110z in comparison to a solid state preamp?

 

[62caddy]

Aside from the upkeep, perhaps for future reference, how was the sound of the mx110z in comparison to a solid state preamp?

MX110 is a beautiful vintage unit which was my main reason for buying one. As to whether it performs better than a comparable unit, such as the MX113 that I have, in my opinion, no. Particularly the tuner section which again the MX113 holds the decided advantage. MX117 would be another step up from that.

 

[mnmmt]

I went from an MX114, which is a solid state preamp/tuner based on the C26 to an MX110z. I was able to compare them for some time side by side. The MX110z is more pleasing sound to my ears--the sound is more delicate and throws a little wider and more airy soundstage. I use it more as a preamp than as a tuner. The tuner section of the MX110z is more finicky, but when it is dialed in, it sounds great. It takes mine about a half hour to get fully warmed up and the signal to be aligned properly (in the first half hour, the sound is pretty bad). After it is warmed up, it sounds great, and it really can give pinpoint soundstaging with a good recording on the classical fm station locally.

As far as being reliable, your C27 and MR78 will win hands down. The volume pot in my MX110z is wonky, and should be rebuilt, and other pots can get scratchy from time to time. It takes a while warming up to really get on boil sonically, and tubes are really a bit of a hassle (not to mention the looming threat of the FM discriminator possibly needing to be rebuilt if it fails).

For me, the MX110z is one of the prettiest units I have ever owned, and it looks like a work of art to me. It sounds better than any other preamp or tuner I have owned. And, because I really truly enjoy working on and tinkering with things like this (I rebuilt my MX110z, MC2505, MA230, MR71, Heathkit tube amp, and prior units etc. on my own) I really don't mind the hassle of upkeep and periodically having to clean and tweak these. If you want something that you can turn on and play, right away,the same way for years, probably stick with your current units.

 

[Alfmonster]

I went from an MX114, which is a solid state preamp/tuner based on the C26 to an MX110z. I was able to compare them for some time side by side. The MX110z is more pleasing sound to my ears--the sound is more delicate and throws a little wider and more airy soundstage. I use it more as a preamp than as a tuner. The tuner section of the MX110z is more finicky, but when it is dialed in, it sounds great. It takes mine about a half hour to get fully warmed up and the signal to be aligned properly (in the first half hour, the sound is pretty bad). After it is warmed up, it sounds great, and it really can give pinpoint soundstaging with a good recording on the classical fm station locally.

As far as being reliable, your C27 and MR78 will win hands down. The volume pot in my MX110z is wonky, and should be rebuilt, and other pots can get scratchy from time to time. It takes a while warming up to really get on boil sonically, and tubes are really a bit of a hassle (not to mention the looming threat of the FM discriminator possibly needing to be rebuilt if it fails).

For me, the MX110z is one of the prettiest units I have ever owned, and it looks like a work of art to me. It sounds better than any other preamp or tuner I have owned. And, because I really truly enjoy working on and tinkering with things like this (I rebuilt my MX110z, MC2505, MA230, MR71, Heathkit tube amp, and prior units etc. on my own) I really don't mind the hassle of upkeep and periodically having to clean and tweak these. If you want something that you can turn on and play, right away,the same way for years, probably stick with your current units.

Thank you @mnmmt for describing your experience with the 110 -- it is so helpful! I've been thinking about the 110z for a long while now - and am now seriously considering it. These units seem to be getting more rare as the the years pass and these older units - especially those in good condition - are being snatched up. The cost also seems to be rising.

How often would you say you had to service or check the mx110? I play my system daily. Perhaps I need to check my mc225 - it’s been about a year of hours of daily play.

This is all wonderful food for thought. Thank you again for your observations!

 

[62caddy]

At the moment, the prices of any number of vintage McIntosh units seem to be rising lately. Couple of C26 preamps hitting near the $1K mark, practically unheard of not long ago. Possibly pandemic related as a result of being grounded at home...I can't say.

 

[Alfmonster]

At the moment, the prices of any number of vintage McIntosh units seem to be rising lately. Couple of C26 preamps hitting near the $1K mark, practically unheard of not long ago. Possibly pandemic related as a result of being grounded at home...I can't say.

yeah I noticed that the price seemed higher for c26 - like even from late 2018 early 2019 when I was looking at the c26/c28/c27, the price seemed to have gone up by a few hundred.

 

[mnmmt]

I did a pretty good reworking of my MX110z when I got it--all new electrolytics, coupling caps, and a few select ceramic caps that are in the audio path, rectifier, etc. and got the voltages set right. I put in good strong tubes, and got it aligned about a year ago. I haven't had to do much with it except I think I clean out the volume pot every 6 months or so with faderlube. Known issues are the volume pot going bad, and the FM Discriminator going bad. Audio Classics can rebuild these for $100-$200 each which should give you decades more use. The tubes in these are all small signal and I've heard should last many thousands of hours, so once you've got your example set right, it should be pretty reliable. If you've got the ability to do it yourself, the dough to pay someone else to do it, or the dough to buy a freshly serviced one, you should be all right with one. If you buy it right you shouldn't have any trouble selling it for close to what you paid (or more given recent price trends).

 

[62caddy]

Repair/restoration receipts totaled up to over $1,200 over the course of 7 years ownership on the MX110 I recently sold, plus several trips back for repairs covered under warranty. One being when the tuner abruptly decided to jump out of alignment for no apparent reason. After a while it became clear keeping this unit operating to spec was going to take more effort than I felt it was worth thus my decision to go with the MX113 to match up with the MC2505 I already had. Cost significantly less to service, has a much better tuner section and not a problem going on 3 years.

Luckily I was able to recoup almost all of my total investment in the MX110 but it wasn't easy. I have two exceptional other units- MAC1500 and MC240 which I use sparingly because I find myself worrying about tube life and other issues possibly cropping up. At least I can say the MC240 has proven to be extremely reliable but the tubes in it are too valuable to justify regular use for sonic differences that just aren't there compared to the 2505. Not just my opinion but many others with far younger ears whose hearing is better than mine.

Frankly someday soon, I'm going to settle on a mint MAC4100 for my vintage rig. My main system with a tower of SS McIntosh will stay as it is.

 

[Alfmonster]

Repair/restoration receipts totaled up to over $1,200 over the course of 7 years ownership on the MX110 I recently sold, plus several trips back for repairs covered under warranty. One being when the tuner abruptly decided to jump out of alignment for no apparent reason. After a while it became clear keeping this unit operating to spec was going to take more effort than I felt it was worth thus my decision to go with the MX113 to match up with the MC2505 I already had. Cost significantly less to service, has a much better tuner section and not a problem going on 3 years.

Luckily I was able to recoup almost all of my total investment in the MX110 but it wasn't easy. I have two exceptional other units- MAC1500 and MC240 which I use sparingly because I find myself worrying about tube life and other issues possibly cropping up. At least I can say the MC240 has proven to be extremely reliable but the tubes in it are too valuable to justify regular use for sonic differences that just aren't there compared to the 2505. Not just my opinion but many others with far younger ears whose hearing is better than mine.

Frankly someday soon, I'm going to settle on a mint MAC4100 for my vintage rig. My main system with a tower of SS McIntosh will stay as it is.

Oh my gosh. This kind of stressed me out haha - your experience with the MX110z sounds really intense. It sounds like the preamp spent a lot of time in the shop.

Maybe I’ll think about staying with the c27/mr78 which has been really great thus far - thanks @62caddy!

 

[Alfmonster]

I did a pretty good reworking of my MX110z when I got it--all new electrolytics, coupling caps, and a few select ceramic caps that are in the audio path, rectifier, etc. and got the voltages set right. I put in good strong tubes, and got it aligned about a year ago. I haven't had to do much with it except I think I clean out the volume pot every 6 months or so with faderlube. Known issues are the volume pot going bad, and the FM Discriminator going bad. Audio Classics can rebuild these for $100-$200 each which should give you decades more use. The tubes in these are all small signal and I've heard should last many thousands of hours, so once you've got your example set right, it should be pretty reliable. If you've got the ability to do it yourself, the dough to pay someone else to do it, or the dough to buy a freshly serviced one, you should be all right with one. If you buy it right you shouldn't have any trouble selling it for close to what you paid (or more given recent price trends).

Your account sounds a bit more positive and definitely gives me something to think about over the weekend as to whether I want to purchase the mx110 or not.

would you say Deoxit would do the same as faderlube? Thank you so much for taking the time to share the logistics behind what I can expect when living with the mx110z - it’s really helpful!!

 

[c_dk]

Well let's have some fun with this.........

I have posted in the Mac forum a conversation I had with the president of McIntosh over dinner, soon after he returned from visiting his friends in Japan.

Gordon told us of their museum grade McIntosh collections that sat under glass to be taken out and enjoyed with their collector friends once a month or so while they smoked Cuban cigars, drank single malt scotch, and played American jazz.

After the evening was over the collection got polished up and put back under glass awaiting the next time the gang would all come over.

Now I know when your audiophile buddies are over and your golden ear registration card is due for renewal you can hear the difference between a knats wing and a fruit fly.

But for everyday listening when the system needs to work every time with no hiccups do you really think that a 50 year old MC225 and matching preamp will really sound soooooo much better than a C27 and a contempory to it say MC502 amp?

My guess would be not so much so you could build up a nice vintage collection, do all the needed service over time to enhance their value and still listen to your "everyday" transistor Mac system,just like Gow 's Japanese collector friends did.

And of coarse when you did need to show off to your golden ear friends you got them covered, except maybe for the Cubans.

 

[psychoaudio]

Hi,

I've been wanting to get a tube preamp for quite some time and am now able to go either way between an MX110Z or a c20. Both have been looked over and meets or exceeds original specs. Perhaps what is causing a pause from going with the mx110z is the cosmetics. The gold lettering is partially rubbed off, and the front glass has some issues -- but mechanically, it is solid. Were I to go with the MX110z, is the front glass simple to change out?
!

I have never seen a MX110Z with gold Lettering on the dial. Is this a special release or commemorative series?

 

[Pio1980]

If you don't use the FM tuner, then the C20. The preamp section is ca 1/6 the MX110, the rest tuner.

 

[BuzzK]

If you don't use the FM tuner, then the C20. The preamp section is ca 1/6 the MX110, the rest tuner.

i've owned and sold a couple of MX-110z units, including a cherry one. The FM in ATL doesn't interest me anymore (it used to be my main music source). I thought the preamp section was really stellar, except there are limited inputs.

If it were up to me again, I think I'd just duplicate the preamp circuit in a separate chassis and be done with it.

 

[longgone]

did alfmonster get the 110Z?