McIntosh XR16 Mid-Range Issue

[Fredo777]

This is my first post.
I would appreciate some assistance with a slight buzz I am getting from the 1.5" dome mid-range in one of my XR16's, which are in my primary listening room. This occurs occasionally, at a particular frequency, and happens reliably upon replaying the same passage of music. Otherwise, it sounds good.

The speaker was built in 1981, as indicated on the back. It is an 036035, and at his webpage on McIntosh mid-range speakers, Roger Russell notes that they were made by McIntosh. There is no clear damage when I inspect it with the protective screen removed.

I purchased the XR16's from HIONFI in Syracuse NY. They sell only vintage equipment. Their tech suggested that I look for one on EBay, as it could not be rebuilt.

Roger Russell provides a thorough description of the construction of this mid-range at his website.
http://www.roger-russell.com/driversm.htm

So, I've got these questions:
1. Can this speaker, in fact, be rebuilt?
2. EBay had none for sale. Are there any other places I can look on the web for a replacement?

 

[swechsler]

Looks like one sold on eBay in November, one will probably come up again. Actually, looks like several sold between October and December, so I suspect you'll see another one there in the next month or so.

If you can't wait, contact Orange County speaker, they're experts at this sort of thing.

 

[Fredo777]

Looks like one sold on eBay in November, one will probably come up again. Actually, looks like several sold between October and December, so I suspect you'll see another one there in the next month or so.

If you can't wait, contact Orange County speaker, they're experts at this sort of thing.

Thanks, I just put in a search at EBay with email notifications, so I hope something does come up.

 

[swechsler]

Test your search terms on completed items to make sure you're not missing anything.

 

[Fredo777]

Looks like one sold on eBay in November, one will probably come up again. Actually, looks like several sold between October and December, so I suspect you'll see another one there in the next month or so.

If you can't wait, contact Orange County speaker, they're experts at this sort of thing.

...And I put in an inquiry to Orange County speaker.....

 

[Fredo777]

Test your search terms on completed items to make sure you're not missing anything.

Yup, just did so. This seems to be a difficult item to search for on EBay, relative to the search terms.

 

[c_dk]

Go to the McIntosh forum and do a search. A company in out state NewYork purchased the component parts, jigs, and fixtures from MCIntosh to continue servicing Mac's old drivers.

I posted who they were and had two of my local clients use their rebuilding services for the 036-035 dome.

They are not inexpensive so if you are looking to get it done on the cheap the Macs will not be your choice of speaker. But hey, in 1980 the driver sold for for $68.80 dollars, certainly not a small amount back then either.

 

[Fredo777]

Go to the McIntosh forum and do a search. A company in out state NewYork purchased the component parts, jigs, and fixtures from MCIntosh to continue servicing Mac's old drivers.

I posted who they were and had two of my local clients use their rebuilding services for the 036-035 dome.

They are not inexpensive so if you are looking to get it done on the cheap the Macs will not be your choice of speaker. But hey, in 1980 the driver sold for for $68.80 dollars, certainly not a small amount back then either.

Thanks very much for the reply, c_dk. The discussion at the "XR6 Upper-Mid Drivers" was quite informative, altho disappointing. The good news, however, is that I live in Syracuse and have used NY Speakerworks previously. In fact, yesterday I left them an after-hours phone message, prior to reading your post. I am looking forward to contacting them on Monday. I bought these speakers in '14 for $650.00 with superb cabs, re-capped and with all the woofers re-coned, so I think that putting $250 or so into them at this point is worthwhile. I did have a sense that I was buying the equivalent of a Jaguar or Porsche when I got them.

 

[Fredo777]

Go to the McIntosh forum and do a search. A company in out state NewYork purchased the component parts, jigs, and fixtures from MCIntosh to continue servicing Mac's old drivers.

I posted who they were and had two of my local clients use their rebuilding services for the 036-035 dome.

They are not inexpensive so if you are looking to get it done on the cheap the Macs will not be your choice of speaker. But hey, in 1980 the driver sold for for $68.80 dollars, certainly not a small amount back then either.

Allow me to ask another seemingly pertinent question, given that I read that clipping can damage these sensitive midrange units. Is my receiver underpowered to run these XR16's given that it is running 2 sets of speakers, the other set being Dynaco A-35's. My reciever is a Yamaha RX-797 with 100 w RMS @ 8 ohms per channel. thanks.

 

[frommerstop]

A quick look at the specs for your receiver shows the distortion number almost triple going from 8ohm to 6ohm loads, and they don't claim it can drive a 4 ohm load at all, so using that Yamaha to drive two pair of speakers at the same time wouldn't be advised. Remember, these are nominally 8ohm - actual resistance of either may dip lower @ some frequencies, and playing both will will be roughly half, or nominally 4ohms with potentially dips going much lower. I'd suggest only using either A, OR B, but never both at the same time.

 

[Fredo777]

A quick look at the specs for your receiver shows the distortion number almost triple going from 8ohm to 6ohm loads, and they don't claim it can drive a 4 ohm load at all, so using that Yamaha to drive two pair of speakers at the same time wouldn't be advised. Remember, these are nominally 8ohm - actual resistance of either may dip lower @ some frequencies, and playing both will will be roughly half, or nominally 4ohms with potentially dips going much lower. I'd suggest only using either A, OR B, but never both at the same time.

Thanks for the repy. I do wish to run all 4, given the unusual design of the 24' x 38' room. I also have a 1978 JVC JR S501 receiver. I would appreciate your opinion. Here are the specs:

Power output: 120 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

Frequency response: 5Hz to 40kHz

Total harmonic distortion: 0.03%

Damping factor: 70

Input sensitivity: 2.5mV (MM), 250mV (line)

Signal to noise ratio: 75dB (MM), 95dB (line)

Output: 250mV (line), 30mV (DIN)

Speaker load impedance: 4Ω to 16Ω

 

[c_dk]

I thought NY Speakerworks really stepped up to continue with rebuilding these domes......Roger Russel at his site goes into much detail about the design of these domes and intellectual property rights as the chief speaker engineer at Mac.

The McIntosh XR16 loudspeaker was Gordon Gow's favorite speaker to use for demos when he had me host one of his seminars. Lets face it any anyone would expect one of McIntosh's 7 foot tall line source arrays to be impressive:; but when 40-50 people would come into our showroom and see the same XR16s they had at home being used by the president of Mac they always felt good and were impressed.

We would park a string quartet of 4 piece jazz combo between the 16s record the group live acoustic and them play the recording back via the 16s as the group left the room. Great fun!

The speakers deserve a much better amplifier package......the least I would use back in the day was a MAC4100 mac receiver with a 75 watt amp equipped with Power Guard to give a measure of protection to those expensive domes.
A 200 watt MC2205 was even more common and something to strive for.

See you in the Mac forum.

 

[Fredo777]

I thought NY Speakerworks really stepped up to continue with rebuilding these domes......Roger Russel at his site goes into much detail about the design of these domes and intellectual property rights as the chief speaker engineer at Mac.

The McIntosh XR16 loudspeaker was Gordon Gow's favorite speaker to use for demos when he had me host one of his seminars. Lets face it any anyone would expect one of McIntosh's 7 foot tall line source arrays to be impressive:; but when 40-50 people would come into our showroom and see the same XR16s they had at home being used by the president of Mac they always felt good and were impressed.

We would park a string quartet of 4 piece jazz combo between the 16s record the group live acoustic and them play the recording back via the 16s as the group left the room. Great fun!

The speakers deserve a much better amplifier package......the least I would use back in the day was a MAC4100 mac receiver with a 75 watt amp equipped with Power Guard to give a measure of protection to those expensive domes.
A 200 watt MC2205 was even more common and something to strive for.

See you in the Mac forum.

I very much enjoy your shared experiences involving Gordon Gow ! They reinforce my decision to have the mids rebuilt.
Until I upgrade my equipment to better match the XR16's, I would appreciate your opinion of temporarily using the Yamaha RX-797 (mentioned above) or my JVC Monster (JR S501) for 2, or even 4 speakers.

 

[c_dk]

I can not conceive of a reason or room configuration that would cause me to want th mess up the imqulity imaging characteristics of any excellent speaker pair......it is soooooo neophyte.

If I had to run two pair with your equipment I would Frankenstein a solution using both receivers......the jvc for the Macs the Yamaha for the dynacos.

 

[Fredo777]

I can not conceive of a reason or room configuration that would cause me to want th mess up the imqulity imaging characteristics of any excellent speaker pair......it is soooooo neophyte.

If I had to run two pair with your equipment I would Frankenstein a solution using both receivers......the jvc for the Macs the Yamaha for the dynacos.

I am a member of 5 forums, mostly for vintage motorcycles, and this is my first experience with being mocked for no good reason. I assumed that AudioKarma was populated with intelligent adults like Frommerstop, rather than juveniles, like yourself. Or is there a tradition of beating up on newbies, here? If so, that would really be sick.

 

[c_dk]

I would have put a smiley on it, I thought it was said and taken as fun and in no way to be demeaning.

We were all neophytes and rookies sometime, we all are still learning I guess I learned something more today.

 

[Fredo777]

I would have put a smiley on it, I thought it was said and taken as fun and in no way to be demeaning.

We were all neophytes and rookies sometime, we all are still learning I guess I learned something more today.

Hmmmmm.........I sense sort of an apologetic tone, but your message is still quite assuming, and perhaps condescending. You see, I am only a newbie as far as this forum goes. I'm 61 years old and have been involved with vintage equipment since age 15.
Had you asked about my large listening space (my great room), I would have told you it is partitioned in a manner that allows for a nice dispersion of the mains (the Macs) with little interference or blending by the B speakers, my Dynacos, the latter which are essentially in a partially disconnected kitchen area.
What I was asking for was a second opinion to Frommerstop's cogent analysis of the specs of my equipment, with consideration of any potential dangers of underpowering, such as clipping, which I understand these 035's are vulnerable to. Put simply, could I safely use the JVC Monster with both sets of speakers, until I get new equipment? I still welcome you to offer your analysis.

 

[frommerstop]

I don't know much about either of your receivers, though that JVC is pretty cool looking, but it looks as though your Yamaha has preamp in/out jumpers on the back - I couldn't find a definitive answer or picture, in a quick search, as to whether the JVC does or not. Using that feature would allow you to use the receiver's preamp/tuner section to drive another amp for the McIntosh, and it's own amp section to drive the Dynacos. I'd suggest a nice stand alone amp dedicated to the XR16s, perhaps a B&K ST202, Adcom GFA555 or maybe a Hafler. None of those would be more than a few hundred dollars, and would be much better than the amp section of that Yamaha. If you love those speakers, you should feed them well.

 

[elitopus]

Fredo,
I would'nt feel bad about using two sets of speakers at once. I know I have had several systems like this. I now prefer having one bigger set of speakers to cover a larger area but I ran two pairs of large Advents for a while.
I would heed the advice of others an either use one larger receiver/amp capable of handling lower loads, or split the load to two receivers.

Personal I would get a large SS amp for the Macs and a smaller tube rig for the Dynacos.

Oh and btw most people here on AK are very helpful and friendly. I have made some good friends on this forum. I live in FL most of the year but have a house just north of you in Pulaski. Familiar with the port ontario area?

 

[Fredo777]

I don't know much about either of your receivers, though that JVC is pretty cool looking, but it looks as though your Yamaha has preamp in/out jumpers on the back - I couldn't find a definitive answer or picture, in a quick search, as to whether the JVC does or not. Using that feature would allow you to use the receiver's preamp/tuner section to drive another amp for the McIntosh, and it's own amp section to drive the Dynacos. I'd suggest a nice stand alone amp dedicated to the XR16s, perhaps a B&K ST202, Adcom GFA555 or maybe a Hafler. None of those would be more than a few hundred dollars, and would be much better than the amp section of that Yamaha. If you love those speakers, you should feed them well.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions; yes, the Yamaha does have that capacity, and I'm going to pursue your idea. However, now that I'm thinking of taking the JVC off the shelf. I'll see today if it has the same capacity; I imagine it does.