MCS 3245 q-u-e-s-t-i-o-n-s-?

[Hifirob2]

You hook up an external EQ through one of your tape monitor loops. Line out (record) from your receiver to Line In on the EQ, and Line Out on the EQ to Line In (play) on your receiver. It adds to whatever your bass and treble settings are already set at. Some people say EQs add noise to the equation, but good ones don't. Just make sure you get one that has equal or better signal to noise ratio & total harmonic distortion figures than your receiver. Experiment with different settings to get the sound you want.

I live in an apartment with pretty thin walls, so I have to careful about using subwoofers in my systems. I do use some passive Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble II subs in the bedroom, and they add all the bass I need - without the neighbors complaining - LOL.

 

[madmonda]

I'm way late to the discussion, but good luck with the 3245. It IS a good sounding rig. Sounded better than the 3253 and 3275 that I had (non of them serviced 'tho).

 

[Billy Dio]

I'm in a similar boat Rob. Someday I'd like to dedicate a room in a house to particle board walls and ceiling and make a "loud" room




Hi Madmonda! I'm guessing you are an MCS fan too? Yeah, I like this 3245 so far. Unfortunately don't have luxury of playing at decent levels though, but headphones sound great. Need to eventually score some Grado or something equally impressive.

 

[Racingh11]

I see this is an old thread, but it comes up in searches from time to time. Some info on the MCS 3245;
-Mystery maker
shares and am antenna mount with sansui
similar back panel type font as technics
made in taiwan, so is marantz superscope series
distributed and commissioned by jc penney, so where units from nec,
shares taiwan maker, speaker terminals, and design styling with MCS 3223,3233,3230,3235,3245-00, 3245-10
tuner shares many schematic similarities and ICs as NEC AUT8300E, has NEC brand IC chip in tuner

The 6 receivers all are part of the same mystery series. Who ever is the designer seems to have outsourced it to Taiwan, making it very difficult to figure out. The other MCS model receivers were built by different makers and have obvious design cues from the original maker. The 3253, 3275, 3125 had direct ties to NEC and technics. I don't remember which at the moment, but I remember seeing direct brand side by side pictures and it was clear who made it. So these beautiful silver face units with the red and black push-button speaker terminals are what I consider the "real" MCS line. Because they seem to be entirely built on their own for JC Penney. The units had better specs as the number got higher. The 3245 has better circuitry than the 3233. Tuner has 1 more FM gang and 6 crystal filter networks compared to 3. The 3245 has a diode regulated constant current source on the bias transistor circuit, the 3233 uses a simple resistor voltage drop network. The preamp/tone board is much more sophisticated and with more options than the 3233. The 3245 has 4 differential transistor pairs. Oddly, the 3233 does not have any. The 3245 is the best in that series.
There are 2 versions of the 3245. The 3245-00 and 3245-10. The 00 was the early version and has the white tuner and meter background and a darker case and type of wood. The 00 has a different transformer and power supply and regulator design and a speaker protection relay and DC drift protection. The 10 has black face tuner and meters and a lighter case, possibly oak. It uses circuit breakers for speaker protection and has an amp muting delay circuit. Both use an overload protection transistor feedback pair. There were 2 3233s as well, not sure what the difference is though.
These are only 8 ohm stable, but I had a 3245-10 when I was younger and had a pair of 4 ohm 15" MTX subs, Jensen 3 way towers, and a pair of bookshelfs on the rear/matrix output. Pounded those subs all the time, even with the towers on and never poped a breaker until I was messing around with some dual voice coil subs just to see and one went. You can even cheat the thing and push the A+B and Matrix button in at the same time and get all 6 going. Worked for watching movies and things, couldn't crank the bookshelfs up anyway. It didn't push those 15" Thundercast or 7000s I had to their limit, but it shook the whole house and met the local police a few times. haha
If anyone has anymore info on these, I'd like to hear it.

 

[Hifirob2]

Welcome to AK, Racingh11. This is an old thread, and I think Billy Dio has added manufacturer info. in other MCS threads. He found that Arvin electronics (based in the US) designed these units, and had them built in Taiwan for JC Penney.

If you come across any service manuals, the manufacturer three-letter abbreviation was in the upper right corner of the front page. Many of these units will either say ARV (for Arvin), or CPT (I think that may reference Capehart - they certainly knew their way around electronics and radios). A few say ITO - which I'm assuming is ITOH. But they didn't make the receivers - they were some sort of clearing house for distribution. Some of the service manuals for obvious NEC made items even have the ITO abbreviation.

Also, no MCS (Modular Component Systems) receivers were made by Technics, or had anything to do with Matsushita in Japan. There may be Panasonic parts inside some of them, but that was common. NEC parts are in many, many brands models (like the tuner ICs), but that doesn't mean NEC made that particular model. There was a line of "Matched Component System" pieces offered one year (1979?) that were separate from the MCS line that WERE made in Japan by Matsushita. They said Panasonic on the face (and rear), but were the same as their Panasonic branded models - these were just sold at Penneys - and said so on the back. They didn't have the "real" MCS warranty, and they were gone the next year. No connection to the Modular Component System line.

The 3245 was probably the best of the Taiwan receivers. I have an example of each of the versions. I don't have the 1980 MCS catalog, so I don't have all the specs, but both of mine still have the clear plastic sticker on the top with specs and info. Interestingly enough, the version with the clear dial (light blue, I guess) says it's 40 watts per channel - not 45 wpc like the version with the dark dial. That may be a typo (those happened sometimes in printed literature and signage), but they seem nearly identical.

The 3233 had three versions. The first version came out along side the 3210 and 3222. They were the very first MCS receivers to hit the stores in early 1977. They also had "JC Penney" printed on the faces. These first models didn't have a vent on the top - so heat couldn't dissipate well. Finding a 3233 without the vent is tough - they are rare. The other two versions had the vent (one brown and one black), and I think there may have been changes to the meters, also.

The tuner in the 3245 is not from NEC, even though it uses some NEC ICs. The NEC model you mention (the AUT-8300E) is very different, spec-wise, and sound wise. I have a AUT-8300E, and it sounds and performs very differently than the 3245's tuner. I really like the 3245, and I'm not complaining about it - but.....the Taiwan and Japan made MCS receivers are very different animals. I have both, I like both, but the Japan made ones (all NEC made) have a sound and quality tactile feel to them that I prefer. Also, the Japan ones can handle 4 ohm loads easily, and I need that feature.

My latest find is a MCS 3222 from early 1977. It looks like it just came out of the box, and it sounds great through my headphones. I had to get it - to match my MCS 3550 cassette deck.

 

[Billy Dio]

Yes, still have a 3233 (fully recapped + a ton of film caps upgaded-used daily 24/7 for netflix/games) and the 3245 (in storage), plus a 3125 (NEC, different animal).

The 3233 had several minor changes, whether it was the top vents, the actual transformer (earlier transformers looked cruder but actually seem to hold up well as I swapped in one of the older ones after a newer one had issues), the guages (tuner strength and stereo) had their markings change, and they altered the LED lights later to sit flush with a beveled aluminum hole IIRC, and quality control was all over the place (I've seen some later ones with wire ends barely hanging off switch backs from poor solder and wire stripping). These amps typically are noisy at idle (with no sound) but extremely dynamic and musical (rock music, etc.) once a couple clicks of volume are added, and the loudness switch appears to be active vs. passive. You can use the Matrix "out" as a dummy center channel by running the + of each matrix channel to the same speaker, just be weary of ohms. It expands the sound when the stereo effect is low i.e dialog. I've used an 8 ohm center on this for a couple years now and it doesn't fuss. Only thing these amplifiers don't truly like is sub-8 ohm speakers, though they can tolerate 6 ohm. The 3 amp L/R fuses can pop if you push heavy bass near clipping for too long.

A real weak point on the 3233 and 3245 is the cheap heat sink. I had a 3233 as a teen, and added an AC powered ham radio fan on top (had a toggle switch and plugged right in at the AC outlet on the back) and the amount of heat it'd pull from the 3233 at full-tilt was akin to a blow dryer on a low fan setting. The fact these even survived is amazing.

I keep coming back to 3233 for the fact it can project an excellent sound image despite it's scrappy-looking internal layout. I have some 4-way cabs that sit on the floor about 30" high, and I'm about 4' away from them. It has the ability to project "up" and "out" in a sort of ghost effect like as if the highs were 6' up. Was really noticing it while watching Penn and Teller's "Fool Us" on streaming. For some reason, their buffer is slow, and it plays low-def for a couple sec, but the highs in the intro just jump out of no where when it catches up.


@Rob Hey There! Cool find with the 3222! 1977 seems to be the sweet spot with these Taiwan units.

 

[Racingh11]

Welcome to AK, Racingh11. This is an old thread, and I think Billy Dio has added manufacturer info. in other MCS threads. He found that Arvin electronics (based in the US) designed these units, and had them built in Taiwan for JC Penney.

If you come across any service manuals, the manufacturer three-letter abbreviation was in the upper right corner of the front page. Many of these units will either say ARV (for Arvin), or CPT (I think that may reference Capehart - they certainly knew their way around electronics and radios). A few say ITO - which I'm assuming is ITOH. But they didn't make the receivers - they were some sort of clearing house for distribution. Some of the service manuals for obvious NEC made items even have the ITO abbreviation.

Also, no MCS (Modular Component Systems) receivers were made by Technics, or had anything to do with Matsushita in Japan. There may be Panasonic parts inside some of them, but that was common. NEC parts are in many, many brands models (like the tuner ICs), but that doesn't mean NEC made that particular model. There was a line of "Matched Component System" pieces offered one year (1979?) that were separate from the MCS line that WERE made in Japan by Matsushita. They said Panasonic on the face (and rear), but were the same as their Panasonic branded models - these were just sold at Penneys - and said so on the back. They didn't have the "real" MCS warranty, and they were gone the next year. No connection to the Modular Component System line.

The 3245 was probably the best of the Taiwan receivers. I have an example of each of the versions. I don't have the 1980 MCS catalog, so I don't have all the specs, but both of mine still have the clear plastic sticker on the top with specs and info. Interestingly enough, the version with the clear dial (light blue, I guess) says it's 40 watts per channel - not 45 wpc like the version with the dark dial. That may be a typo (those happened sometimes in printed literature and signage), but they seem nearly identical.

The 3233 had three versions. The first version came out along side the 3210 and 3222. They were the very first MCS receivers to hit the stores in early 1977. They also had "JC Penney" printed on the faces. These first models didn't have a vent on the top - so heat couldn't dissipate well. Finding a 3233 without the vent is tough - they are rare. The other two versions had the vent (one brown and one black), and I think there may have been changes to the meters, also.

The tuner in the 3245 is not from NEC, even though it uses some NEC ICs. The NEC model you mention (the AUT-8300E) is very different, spec-wise, and sound wise. I have a AUT-8300E, and it sounds and performs very differently than the 3245's tuner. I really like the 3245, and I'm not complaining about it - but.....the Taiwan and Japan made MCS receivers are very different animals. I have both, I like both, but the Japan made ones (all NEC made) have a sound and quality tactile feel to them that I prefer. Also, the Japan ones can handle 4 ohm loads easily, and I need that feature.

My latest find is a MCS 3222 from early 1977. It looks like it just came out of the box, and it sounds great through my headphones. I had to get it - to match my MCS 3550 cassette deck.

Thanks for the added info, that pretty much clears up the mystery. The reason I mentioned the NEC AUT8300e is because the 3245 has the same circuit and FET setup in the beginning FM stages and the same NEC ICs throughout. The MCS actually has twice the crystal filter circuits than the NEC and has almost an identical AM section and IC. I'm guessing there were only so many tuner ICs back then that were good and likely came with suggested circuit diagrams to use with their ICs. I have both 3245 versions for sale at the moment and a 3235 and some Soundcraftsmen gear next.

 

[Racingh11]

Hifirob2, would you mind listing the 3245 specs on that sticker? I've been looking everywhere. I'd like a stated amp THD, S/N, and some tuner specs if you have them. Thanks

 

[Hifirob2]

Just a friendly drive by comment - you may get into trouble on AK posting links to your own ebay items. You can reference ebay listings - but you can't be affiliated to them.

I really like the tuner in the 3245. They certainly didn't have to put in such a nice FM section, but I'm glad they did. All of it's specs are good - but it still isn't as quiet as the NEC tuners. The AM section, though, is outstanding. Amazing fidelity. NEC couldn't make a decent sounding AM section to save themselves. The frequency bandwidth was so limited, it is almost not worth listening to.

Good to see you still around, Billy Dio. I like hearing about your 3233s. I had one, but man - I did not warm up to it. This 3222 is a lot better in my opinion. Cleaner inside layout, much better phono stage, and no plastic speaker hookups. I prefer the bare screw post for some reason. My 3212 back in college had them, and I got used to them. I also have some other JC Penney pieces that were not MCS, but obviously came from the same Taiwan factory. Not a lot of power, but what's there sure sounds punchy.

Just saw you latest post, Racingh11. Here's what the sticker on the 3245 with the light blue dial say:

40 watts per channel (the other one says 45 wpc), driven at 8 ohms from 20 to 20k hz with less than 0.3% THD. FM sensitivity: nominal 1.5 micro volts, limit 2.0 micro volts. FM signal to noise ratio: nominal 60dB, limit 55dB.

Not a lot of info, but it's something, I guess.

 

[Racingh11]

Sorry, didn't know, but makes sense. I'll edit that part. Thanks for the info. I had seen .2% THD on a different forum. Thought it would be better than the 3235, guess not. Still waiting on schematics for that one, so I'm not sure how different the 3235 amp is.

 

[Racingh11]

I actually like finding out it is an American company behind the design on this one. The USA design and build is one of the things I liked about Soundcraftsmen. They pioneered many firsts in the audio design world, enough maybe for another thread topic...

 

[Hifirob2]

Also, keep in mind that the art department put together the glossy MCS yearly catalogs, and there were mistakes - both in pictures and in the specs section. The giant Spring/Summer, Fall/Winter, and Christmas catalogs had pricing information, but few actual specs other than wpc. But the big catalogs got all the info. correct - so that's a plus.

MCS specs also usually listed a "nominal" rating and a "limit" rating. I usually go by the nominal rating, but some owner's manuals goofed up - and I'm not not sure which number to go by. As usual, it's best to gauge the specs with caution - and let your ears be your guide.

I'm curious if the tuner section in the 3235 is the same as in the 3245. The ones I see on ebay often have blown outputs - common issue with that generation of Taiwan models.

 

[Racingh11]

I'll let you know on the tuner when I get the info. I had read somewhere else that the 3245 and 3125 were the only 2 MCS receivers to have a 4 gang FM. I'll know this week when I get the receiver and schematic. I never had problems overheating or blowing transistors or even tripping breakers with 4 ohm loads on mine, but I also didn't like the sound of distortion. So I probably never pushed it past it's 50 watt clipping and never had an issue. Even blew out some cheap speakers with it and didn't phase it. One of the 2 3245s I have now, did have transistors shorted through and tripped the input overload breaker. They have kind of a touchy bias adjustment, so I can see it running away if anything goes out of spec.

 

[Racingh11]

So if the budget Superscope series by Marantz was also built in Taiwan during that time period, is it possible that Marantz had Arvin Taiwan assemble their units for them?

 

[dzkfraser]

hmm, interesting about the 3233, know a guy who wants to sell me one, kinda rethinking it now, since there are different versions, and it looks like the build quality is suspect, which version would be the best one? Won't say what he wants for it since this isn't D&S, but good to have a little knowledge to haggle with

 

[Hifirob2]

So if the budget Superscope series by Marantz was also built in Taiwan during that time period, is it possible that Marantz had Arvin Taiwan assemble their units for them?

I had a Superscope receiver some time back, and it was really different from the Taiwan MCS units. Nothing inside or out made me think they could be related in any way.

 

[Racingh11]

I had a Superscope receiver some time back, and it was really different from the Taiwan MCS units. Nothing inside or out made me think they could be related in any way.

My first receiver was a Superscope R-350. I agree, nothing similar about those receivers. Just thought maybe Marantz designed a budget receiver and had it assembled in Taiwan instead of Japan to bring the price down. Otherwise that means there were 2 Taiwanese companies that were capable of building good looking stuff in that time period, kind of doubt it. But who knows. The Marantz receivers don't share anything with the Japanese makers either, yet is still assembled there.

 

[Racingh11]

hmm, interesting about the 3233, know a guy who wants to sell me one, kinda rethinking it now, since there are different versions, and it looks like the build quality is suspect, which version would be the best one? Won't say what he wants for it since this isn't D&S, but good to have a little knowledge to haggle with

Not sure which one is better. But I can say from the schematics, that the 3233-00 and 3233-10 look to have identical schematics. I didn't look at every last thing, but everything I saw was the same. Unlike the 3245-00 and 3245-10, where you can see major differences in design. It's hard to tell with those if the changes were to make it better or cut costs. It does look like the early units had green edge glass look acrylic where the newer ones were just clear for what that's worth. The 3245-00 went from speaker protection relay to circuit breaker. On the schematic it looks like they eliminated quite a few things by removing the relay and dc drift protecion circuit and a pair or regulators from the power supply. But oddly enough, the newer -10 has less(almost none) power supply noise in the FM. I noticed a 60hz hum in the FM when the muting was on and it was in between stations with the volume cranked up. I over-sized the regulated caps and added one right on the tuner board and it's gone for all practical purposes.

 

[Billy Dio]

hmm, interesting about the 3233, know a guy who wants to sell me one, kinda rethinking it now, since there are different versions, and it looks like the build quality is suspect, which version would be the best one? Won't say what he wants for it since this isn't D&S, but good to have a little knowledge to haggle with

I've owned several 3233; first was a 1977 model (plastic top vent that sits slightly higher than the veneer, very basic looking meter backing stickers) that I ran hard (in the 90's) for years in HS after my dad gave it to me. After getting interested in older amplifiers in the past 6 years or so, I bought 2 more 3233 (mainly to see if my memory of it sounding better than modern mid-range gear was accurate or nostalgia). One gave ghost and other is recapped, with the best bits of both, including a nice Alps power switch harvested from a same period Fisher which was a 100% identical physical swap over the cheaper factory whatever.

These do NOT have relays, so inrush is an issue on bigger caps. I just deselect speakers and turn on/off. The suspect soldering issues were on the one that had the beveled holes for the LEDS and lower sitting top vent. Mainly the wires soldered to the Function and Tape selector switches. Some came off just by handling them, though it might have been a lazy worker during assembly, who knows.

Uses resistors instead of pots for DC offset, but amp board does have bias pots, though be wary of the heatsink as it'll get HOT if set too ambitiously. Pots on tuner board are for the tuning and strength needles, and the stereo LED can be set to apply earlier. Uses 2n3055/MJ2955 Motorola which I think some NAD also ran. Modern devices like cell phones too close to the top cause unwanted interference also.

I *think* I'm running the newer one with the older transformer and older amp board. I only use the AUX in and sometimes radio FM, so can't comment on Phono or tape, AM, etc.. If you can get one cheap, worth a shot to compare it. I personally think it sounds best listening to rock or old school rap music via speakers, and the stereo imaging effect is nice, especially when you are in the sweet spot. Does have a rare-for-it's line midrange pot, which is nice to have.

Definitely better gear out there than this, but prices have spiked all around so harder to get super cheap anymore. Try demoing your friend's unit with YOUR speakers, and bring some CD's you like.

 

[dzkfraser]

Thanks for the info, some things to be aware of, I'll definitely pop the cover and take a listen before making any offers, Nice looking receiver though