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MCS 6500 setup

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wildbill59

New Member
Hello!

Long time member, first time poster! Just picked up a MCS 6500 to match my MCS 3233, cassette deck and equalizer. Beautiful shape, new AT cartridge, pitch control steady, new belt, etc. My issue: the tonearm weight was adjusted all the way in towards the fulcrum for shipping, and the anti-skate was set to zero. I'm new to TT setup, don't know where to start. There's a tonearm weight, and in front of it is a graduated disc, dial, gauge, whatever it's called. When I rotate the weight, the disc turns independently of the weight. I'm guessing (?) that I should zero out the disc with the weight at its closest point, but I defer to your expertise. I have a SFG-2, but don't really know how to use it. I understand it's a scale and how to read it, but don't know what I want the weight to be, can't find a manual or any adjustment settings for this TT. I'm a relatively smart guy with good mechanical skills, but remember, I'm new to TT repair. So please type slowly:music: and use small words. Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
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Hi -

Actually, you should zero out the disc, and not the actual weight, with the tonearm floating horizontally/parallel with the platter. Once you've got that you should move the weight (and the numbered disc should move with it) to the correct setting for stylus pressure. Anti-skate should be set to the same number as the counterweight.

The stylus pressure ("weight") is dictated by the cartridge manufacturer's specifications. You mentioned that the cartridge is a new Audio-Technica. Do you have the literature that came with it? Failing that, do you know what model the cartridge is?

There's something else of at least equal importance that you'll have to deal with. That's stylus alignment. This can be accomplished with an alignment protractor but the procedure is painstaking and a lot of newcomers find it extremely difficult. Fortunately, many of the turntable manufacturers had alignment shortcuts that made it very easy to set the alignment. Unfortunately, there's no single standard. Different manufacturers used different measurements for their shortcuts.

MCS (J C Penneys) turntables were made for them by a couple of different manufacturers. I've heard Hitachi mentioned. Also Pioneer (doubtful). Technics absolutely did make many of them. If we can identify the maker of the 6500 then we can probably save you some time and aggravation.

I can't find anything on the 6500. Any chance of some photos? There may be clues in its appearance that will tell us who made it.

Important! The alignment must be done before adjusting the stylus pressure. Changing the cartridge position changes the stylus pressure.

John
 
Okay..............

An old AK thread has it that the MCS 6500 is a Hitachi HT-250. The same thread states that the HT-350 is the direct drive brother of the HT-250. VinylEngine has the owner's manual for the HT-350.

If all this information is accurate, and perhaps even if the only thing that is accurate is that the MCS 6500 was made by Hitachi, the cartridge alignment spec is 51mm from stylus tip to the rubber washer at the rear of the headshell.

John
 

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Wow, you guys are fast, and good! Okay, hoping these pics will load. I'll write back if I can get this to work.
 

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Okay, that kinda worked. Don't know why the pics are so small, I'll try again in a bit if needed. I checked a belt site for cross-reference #s. They listed a couple of Hitachis, but not the ones you mentioned, Boreas. Not sayin' you're wrong, trust me, just sayin'. I've heard Technics and seldom, but sometimes, Pioneer associated with this model. Maybe the pics will help. Ironically, the picture showing the 'High Stability Balance System' was shaky and unstable! Huh. Again, you guys have been a big help already, thanks again.
 
Wow, you're fast John! And thanks for the compliment! And also, thanks for the friendly greeting, Balifly! Yeah, it's not mint, but nice enough and looks perfect with the 3233 and other components. Gotta love the 'wood' cases. And although I'm sure it's not ultra high-end, it seems to be well made. Okay, gotcha on the 51 mm, very interesting. Didn't know that was part of the setup, but makes perfect sense. I was going to print out an alignment protractor, guess I'll need to do that too. But I see the rubber washer, gotta find my accurate metric ruler, but looks reasonable. Didn't get to check out your link yet, Barifly, I'll be doing it soon, thanks again. So as far as the cartridge goes, the new one is an AT247E. The one installed on it now seems fine, I'm sure not very high end, but... I was thinking of using the new one on my main turntable, as much as I think I'm gonna love this MCS, might not get enough use to warrant a new cartidge if the old one is sufficient. Or I might buy a new entry-level (well, maybe a tad above entry - hey, I deserve it!) for the MCS once I have it roughed in, we'll see how it sounds. Looks to be a 70's-era AT, black with the red stylus deal (technical term, right?), more than likely OEM. Okay, gotta take the lovely wife to dinner, I'll be looking forward to seeing what you all have for me when I get back. This has been a pleasure, thanks for not talking down to the novice. With help like this, I'll be on top off things quick! Talk to you soon!
 
wildbill59 said:
Okay, gotcha on the 51 mm, very interesting. Didn't know that was part of the setup, but makes perfect sense. I was going to print out an alignment protractor, guess I'll need to do that too.
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Either/or but not both. Each accomplishes the same thing. I'd recommend using the 51mm shortcut for now.

But I see the rubber washer, gotta find my accurate metric ruler, but looks reasonable.
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A lot of folks use a digital caliper. Harbor Freight has an inexpensive one.

So as far as the cartridge goes, the new one is an AT247E.
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That's not a particularly new cartridge but it's a good one with some nice choices in styli. It's essentially one of the many iterations of the old AT10. The stylus on there now is an ATS11E. It tracks between 1.5 & 2.5g so 2.0 to 2.25g is a good spot.

The one installed on it now seems fine, I'm sure not very high end,
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Do you know what model that one is?

but... I was thinking of using the new one on my main turntable, as much as I think I'm gonna love this MCS, might not get enough use to warrant a new cartidge if the old one is sufficient. Or I might buy a new entry-level (well, maybe a tad above entry - hey, I deserve it!) for the MCS once I have it roughed in, we'll see how it sounds. Looks to be a 70's-era AT, black with the red stylus deal (technical term, right?), more than likely OEM.
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Except for the color does the stylus look like the one on the AT247E? If so, it's probably an AT10. That would mean that you have two essentially identical cartridges except the green stylus is elliptical and the red one conical. (Of course, it could be anything......)

You might want to try to ID that one. Even if it's an "entry level" cartridge it can be really transformed by an upgraded stylus. That's absolutely the case with the AT247E so think about new styli as an alternative to new cartridges. New styli are probably a good idea anyway since the condition of both is unknown.

John
 
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Well, I'm a happy guy, and the 6500 is singin' like a bird! John and Barifly, couldn't have done it without your help. And it all seems so logical after reading and viewing. Okay, now to more info about styli (bet you thought I'd say 'styluses', huh?). The cartridge I went with is the AT247E. The body is a bone-offwhite sort of color with a green stylus. Except for the colr, reasonably identical to the one on the MCS, but not exact. Anyway, it works fine. I gathered up a few more ATs that were on some unused TTs that I've had sittin' around, one was marked as an AT11 (no E, the only ones I could find info on were AT11Es). The stylus was yellow, but the body was virtually identical to the OE (maybe OE, maybe not) cartridge on the MCS. The needle on the yellow stylus was visibly bad, and I had to wreck it (literally, like lots of little pieces with needlenose pliers!?). So I used the red stylus on both the AT11 and its unmarled but identical twin that came on the MCS. Confused? I am! Long story short, both cartridges sounded terrible with the red stylus. And now for my ?s: Do cartridges go bad, or should a new stylus renew them? Are the AT11s worth updating with new styli, or should just invest in an entry level cartridge? I've heard that the CN5625AC is fair, would you be OK with it for my needs? And last, elliptical or conical: with is better fo me? I don't do any scratching (not intentionally, at least!) or DJing, just spinning of old vinyl, usually records in pretty good to fair condition, but again, nothing perfect. Okay, gotta get back to work. Answer at your leisure, thanks for your excellent insight. Y'all BETTER let the boy boogie woogie!
 
wildbill59 said:
Well, I'm a happy guy, and the 6500 is singin' like a bird!
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Congratulations! Glad you sorted it out.

The cartridge I went with is the AT247E. The body is a bone-offwhite sort of color with a green stylus.
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Yes, I believe you pictured that earlier in the thread. That green stylus is an ATS11E (E for elliptical).

Except for the colr, reasonably identical to the one on the MCS, but not exact.
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There are several Audio-Technica stylus types that are quite similar in appearance. Some are so similar that they can be used interchangeable. Still others can be interchanged despite very different outward appearance. It can get confusing.

Anyway, it works fine.
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The AT247E? Good!

And now for my ?s: Do cartridges go bad, or should a new stylus renew them?
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Cartridges can go bad but they usually don't. Yours are probably fine but just need new styli.

Are the AT11s worth updating with new styli, or should just invest in an entry level cartridge?
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You can get a new stylus for the AT247E that's identical to the one you have or you can get a better one of the same type. You can also get new styli for the AT11s. Either way would probably be an improvement over the AT247E in its present condition.

I've heard that the CN5625AC is fair, would you be OK with it for my needs?
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I don't have any experience with that cartridge. I believe it's somewhat better than its sub $20.00 price would indicate. I suspect that the performance of it wouldn't be as good as the AT247E with a new stylus but the cash outlay would be less. The styli for the AT247E start at around $30.00 and go up from there. I guess it depends on your budget.

And last, elliptical or conical: with is better fo me?
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Conicals are less expensive and than ellipticals and produce less detail in the music. They are somewhat better for older '50s and '60s LPs, EPs amd 45s. Which you choose would be a matter of what you listen to and, again, budget.

Finally, you can pick up brand new cartridges like the Shure M97xE for $55.00 or the Audio-Technica AT95E for $42.00 delivered from Amazon. Either of these would be a very big step up from what you have, even with brand new styli.

John
 
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Hi John!

Hey, thanks so much for the great info. Had to go out of town for a few days, but came home with some new strays, a Marantz 6200 and a Pioneer SX-727. I'm sure I'll have some questions for you all about them soon. Again, thanks for the help, I'll talk to you soon!

Wild Bill
 
Nearly a decade later and your advice and guidance stands strong. Just put a new Grado black on my 6500 using your info. Thanks!And thanks to AK for the great forums/archives.
 
Anyone know how to adjust this model so the auto return doesn't scratch? I've read elsewhere that there's a screw you adjust for the cueing height but can't seem to figure out where that is on this MCS model.
 
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