-
Feeling lucky? Check out the AK 24th Anniversary Giveaway thread and join in the fun!
Metal Reels...Benefit?
- Thread starter deadphish
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
Tinman
Super Member
No, and Yes. 
Also, there are SOME machines that could wind so fast that plastic reels have been known to fly apart if they had any cracks or damage. Not possible with metal reels.
I had a Nagra T-Audio that shattered a plastic reel, sending a fragment an inch into drywall....... missing my family jewels by an inch... literally.
Metal reel for me from then on... LOL!
Also, there are SOME machines that could wind so fast that plastic reels have been known to fly apart if they had any cracks or damage. Not possible with metal reels.
I had a Nagra T-Audio that shattered a plastic reel, sending a fragment an inch into drywall....... missing my family jewels by an inch... literally.
Metal reel for me from then on... LOL!
There is no sonic benefit to metal reels. In fact, if the tape loaded on the reels is not back-coated to draw off static charges in rubbing polyester base film, the reels can discharge static to metal parts on the recorder (unless the hub is also metal, which is not common).
I used to think there was no technical benefit to metal reels, until I measured much lower phase fluctuations between channels than with plastic reels. I traced the improvement to a more precise shape of the hub: the tape is packed more evenly and doesn't constantly move up and down over the guides and heads. Those vertical movements cause the tape to be slighted slanted which in turn causes phase fluctuations at the frequency of the rotation speed of the reel.
Of course there are other factors causing phase fluctuation, such as uneven winding (it's best to load the tape on the take-up reel and rewind it just before recording or playing it), precise hubs are just one factor among others.
Now I've never noticed lower phase fluctuations made a major difference in the sound. The stereo image seems to be somewhat more focused but I'm not quite sure it is a real effect (never had an opportunity to make a double-blind comparison).
EDIT: as regards the antistatic effects of metal, as Wilhelm says. In most metal reels the hub is made of plastic anyway, so no part of the tape is not in electrical contact with ground.
Of course there are other factors causing phase fluctuation, such as uneven winding (it's best to load the tape on the take-up reel and rewind it just before recording or playing it), precise hubs are just one factor among others.
Now I've never noticed lower phase fluctuations made a major difference in the sound. The stereo image seems to be somewhat more focused but I'm not quite sure it is a real effect (never had an opportunity to make a double-blind comparison).
EDIT: as regards the antistatic effects of metal, as Wilhelm says. In most metal reels the hub is made of plastic anyway, so no part of the tape is not in electrical contact with ground.
Last edited:
Decatur Greg
Super Member
Thanks for the tip on this. Why is this? what's done on fast wind that makes the winding more even for recording/playback?
I have another question that I've always wondered about... when storing the tape, should I fast wind before storing or is better to store one that has been played onto the reel?
EDIT: And another burning question since getting into reel to reel... When I stop playing a tape part way through, is there potential damage to the tape or deck by keeping the tape on there, with the power off, with the tape touching the tape heads? Or should I always rewind and remove the tape reel?
Last edited:
1tumbleweed
Kozmik Kowboy
The only real benefit I've ever found with metal reels is that if the tape is scraping on the reel, you can usually bend the metal to correct it. With a plastic reel the only solution is a spacer.
Happy trails,
Larry B.
Happy trails,
Larry B.
It aligns the tape pack at an even and correct height on the hub. Just out if the box, the pack is often askew. Incidentally, it also helps to check for shedding or stickiness before playing it, and often loosens and evens the tape tension.
Usual recommendation is to play in at normal speed to the end, and store it tail out, without rewinding it. The tension and packing are better & more regular. In particular, this technique is considered best for long-term archival.
The main problem is dust deposit on the exposed tape, and of course the fact that it is at the mercy of handling errors. I always avoid keeping a tape partly played on a recorder. If you have to do it, protect it from dust with a cover or a light sheet of cloth that doesn't touch the tape.
That's strange, I've noticed the opposite. I always store tapes upright (recommended archiving practice), it may well be the difference.
Tinman
Super Member
Storing tails out is only used on 2 track tapes. It make ZERO difference for 4 track.
Reason for tails out is so that you can mask sonic print through. Say you have a drum crash or other loud sound, storing the tape in rewound state would cause print through ahead of the actual sound, so you may hear a ghost echo preceding the actual sound.
If you store tails out, the print through occurs AFTER the original sound, so while it IS still there, you would likely not hear it.
Since 4 track tape records in both directions, it doesn't matter as one side will have post echo and the other pre echo.
BTW, I have straightened plastic reels using a heat gun, but it's not for the faint of heart. You have to know when to stop.... LOL!
Reason for tails out is so that you can mask sonic print through. Say you have a drum crash or other loud sound, storing the tape in rewound state would cause print through ahead of the actual sound, so you may hear a ghost echo preceding the actual sound.
If you store tails out, the print through occurs AFTER the original sound, so while it IS still there, you would likely not hear it.
Since 4 track tape records in both directions, it doesn't matter as one side will have post echo and the other pre echo.
BTW, I have straightened plastic reels using a heat gun, but it's not for the faint of heart. You have to know when to stop.... LOL!
fishoz
Active Member
Could very well be. Going on experiance picking up some used reels. Metal were fine, plastic were warped. Probably stored stacked.
ofajen
Daddy-O-Daddy-O-Baby
I prefer to spool tape onto precision reel hubs when the tape is on the transport, and then store on the original hub or a plastic reel. I buy tape as a pancake and the supplied hubs are usually designed for standard, three-hole metal flanges, and I use those hubs only for storage.
So, the benefit of metal flanges is getting to use precision, six-hole hubs, which are designed for metal flanges (or no flanges). With a precision hub, it is the hub, not the attached flange, that is providing contact to the reel table and the hold-down.
I'm not sure I could specify an audio benefit, but precision reel hubs and flanges just seem to work better and eliminate hassles.
Otto
So, the benefit of metal flanges is getting to use precision, six-hole hubs, which are designed for metal flanges (or no flanges). With a precision hub, it is the hub, not the attached flange, that is providing contact to the reel table and the hold-down.
I'm not sure I could specify an audio benefit, but precision reel hubs and flanges just seem to work better and eliminate hassles.
Otto
No, and Yes.
I had a Nagra T-Audio that shattered a plastic reel, sending a fragment an inch into drywall....... missing my family jewels by an inch... literally.
Metal reel for me from then on... LOL!
I think LOL is a lie!!!!
GPS16
Hi,
I have 2 A700s which have been modified using more up to date op amps as the noisy ones originally fitted are now obsolete. If a new amp is fitted to the playback amp then there is a known issue of the playback amp putting a click onto the tape as the power supplies collapse at switch off. I believe that this was the function of the diode in the compensation components was doing. These are left disconnected when an 8 pin replacement is fitted into a 14 pin socket!!!
As a matter of course I unwind the tape slightly until it is loose on the rollers and then move the large rollers of the 700 to put all the slack into the gap where the head block is.
If turning the recorder off for a long period, I used to do this anyway as I have had leader tape joints give way if left in the gap between the 2 reels with tension in place by the spring loaded tensioner rollers. I now kill 2 birds with one stone as they say.
We all have our reasons!!! I would leave the tape in place. Just remove the tension.
Cheers
GPS16
Tinman
Super Member
It's a nervous LOL..... I mean, it was a close call after all....
BTW, I also just slack the tape on my A810 when not in use.
It's a nervous LOL..... I mean, it was a close call after all....
BTW, I also just slack the tape on my A810 when not in use.
I inherited a Brenell MkV from my Grandfather. The Rew/FF speed on that machine is amazing. Near the end of a Rewind, the take up spool make a whooshing sound due to the speed. If the Knurled Nut is not fitted to hold it down, I have actually seen the spool start to lift!!!! That was a sphincter twitcher too!!!
You just don't witness such things with a Cassette!!!!
GPS16
ofajen
Daddy-O-Daddy-O-Baby
My Otaris seem to appreciate this. I've noticed that the 1/2" 8-track's tach roller works accurately if I unload the tension between sessions. At first I was leaving tension on the tach guide, and I began noticing that the time reading would stray by a couple of percent during fast wind. I suspect continuous tension tended to cause the spring to behave differently (slightly less force), leaving a tiny fraction of tach roller slippage during fast wind that caused the reading to get off by a couple of percent. It seems pretty much accurate when tension is removed while the machine is off.
This is not an issue with my M-23 for several reasons: the Isoloop transport automatically relieves all tension when not moving tape, the incoming and outgoing tape guides are all fixed and there is no tape counter whatsoever.
Otto
