• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Missing detailed Bass...Amplifier Upgrade?!

MCdeltaT

MCdeltaT

Active Member
Hello. I recently got my Budgie Tube Preamp and wow I'm hearing my records like never before. It seems like a veil was removed, and everything sounds much clearer. The individual guitar notes are now easy to distinguish.

Just yesterday I was listening to a sound system where the bass guitar notes were alive in a way I hadn't ever noticed before (my ear is becoming better with time). After listening to my system again, I realized this is something I am lacking. The bass seems drowned in the background, and it sounds muddy where I can pick it up.

I have a Denon X-1300W receiver which puts out 75 Watts to my B&W 683 S2 speakers. The Denon powers my speakers to sufficiently loud volumes....though would more "clean" power bring out the lower frequency at lower levels? I'm not sure how this works and wondering if my receiver might be undersized without initially realizing it.

Also.....Since getting the Budgie I've been interested in running a tube amp but they are expensive, and my budget would be around $1,000. There are a couple PrimaLuma amps that are in my range, but only put out 35 Watts. Kevin Deal keeps talking up that this amp will power speakers with sensitivity about 86 to good volumes. Without being able to test one, do you think this would hold true? My speakers are in a 15 x 15 room and I do like it loud occasionally. Do you think this amp would help me with above issue, with getting better bass clarity?

Just looking for some opinions for consideration! I know my amp is probably the piece of gear that needs upgrading the most. Agree?!
 
Register to hide this ad
Without knowing anything about this other system that impressed you with it's ability for articulate bass reproduction ???

I'd say yeah,,,I would probably be looking into finding some more power to drive those B&W speakers...
At least for the bass drivers.

IOW maybe you should consider bi-amping and use a higher wpc solid state amp for the woofers.
And then you could maybe consider using a sweet sounding tube amp(s) for the mids/highs.

Beyond that the discussion is likely going to shift towards subwoofers for dealing with this sorta thing.

FFT

Bret P.
 
Unless you are a head-banging volume freak, 35 PrimaLuna tube watts should be fine, IMO. So should high-quality SS amps, as well. If a quality amp doesn't bring you similar bass clarity, then it would be time to suspect your speakers.
 
Are you routing the Budgie through the amp-in section of the Denon? Any which way I would suggest looking first to your room and positioning of the speakers and your seating before investing time and money trying different electronics. Are you familiar with room modes and standing waves?

Your mention of a 15x15 room was a hint to some issues you may be facing. Square dimensions are not usually a good thing for sound propagation. Standing waves in the lower spectrum can play havoc with good bass response. The position of speakers and where you sit to listen in the room can also influence how you perceive the bass response.

Your room may need some bass trapping. Not an easy thing to manage in rooms that share use as listening spaces and as living spaces. At the least you need to shift the speakers around and change, perhaps temporarily, your listening position. Try to pick up on differences in bass as you move around.

You have some fine speakers so it makes sense to help them do what they are capable of.

(HTHMAN came in with a quick response as I was typing. Sorry for redundancy)
 
DavidF said:
(HTHMAN came in with a quick response as I was typing. Sorry for redundancy)
Click to expand...

But you gave a much better explanation. The OP may be experiencing bass nulls most likely from bass reflecting off the walls and cancelling the bass at the listening position. Bass traps will help but if this is a living space, the wife will probably not go along with this. A few well placed pillows might help along with draperies and upholstered furniture. I agree that bass should not be a problem with those speakers.
 
Tube units with their hggher source impedance react severely with speakers some times. Especially those with lower impedances and those with ports or complex impedance curves. The response can wander almost 6 to 10 db sometimes and it mostly occurs in the lower midrange and bass. So how an amp reacts with a particular speaker is going to be a guessing game. Now SS amps with out autoformers and a very low source impedance aren't as easily influenced. That doesn't mean they will sound better, it just means the difference in sound is more the fault of the loud speaker. That said amps like Threshold, Krell, Boulder, are known for their speed. Amps like Quad, Mcintosh, Bryston, and Accuphase are known more for their neutrality. Some amps like NAD are known to be almost smooth like some tube amps.

All you can hope for is you connect with a B&W owner who understands your plight and is willing to share with you his solution.
 
Last edited:
DavidF said:
Are you routing the Budgie through the amp-in section of the Denon? Any which way I would suggest looking first to your room and positioning of the speakers and your seating before investing time and money trying different electronics. Are you familiar with room modes and standing waves?
Click to expand...

I'm running the Budgie into one of the Denon's "Audio In" inputs. Thanks for your response. I've read a lot about room mods, and actually started a thread awhile back asking for low cost improvements with big ROI. I got a lot of good advice, and actually got some good improvement. Tonight I will take a look...play with speakers and listening position...and report back on what I find. Thanks!
 
Make sure your speakers are in phase. Reverse the polarity of the speaker wires on ONE speaker only. See if you have more bass. If so, that is the proper orientation. If not, it's something else.
 
twiiii said:
The response can wander almost 6 to 10 db sometimes and it mostly occurs in the lower midrange and bass.
All you can hope for is you connect with a B&W owner who understands your plight and is willing to share with you his solution.
Click to expand...

The B&W's 683 s2 frequency response is +/- 3dB @ 52Hz–22kHz, and –6dB at 30Hz and 50kHz so the speaker will drop off volume at the very low and high ends.

But it sounds like there are a number of issues that should be considered. I'll start with low cost solutions and work my way up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom