MM and MC: What on earth makes the "difference" in sound?

[gusten]

Great post dlaloum, totally agree. If one wants to have a neutral freq. response, the tools are free and testrecords can be bought cheaply.
There is of course an effort involved, but also a great reward.

There is really no other way if the cartridge should be able to work at its best IMO.
gusten

 

[neobop]

Wow, lots of very strong opinions here, based on what?

Everybody has a different system and different space. What sounds great on one, might sound like hell on another. I think some people might be forming opinions about things they have little experience with.

How can we judge another persons results, when we haven't heard them, on their system? I happen to like the 881 and 170ML, but that doesn't rule out another cart possibly sounding better. Home systems are usually very different than studios.

I think it would be appropriate to qualify our opinions, at least with an, IMO. Maybe it wouldn't be so offensive.

There are many differences between MCs and MMs. Is that the topic?

Live and let live,
neo

 

[dlaloum]

Hi Neo

Quite right - everything I write is of course IMO.... (I don't believe it is possible to make a statement that is not IMO... opinion, faith, belief.... another interesting topic, along with the fallacy of its link to truth.... and the question of what is truth....:sigh: )

Measuring and adjusting one's source is a critical precursor to true High Fidelity reproduction....

If the source itself is not calibrated and adjusted - what hope have we got down the line....

But like I said - that assumes that reproduction is the goal.

If the goal is euphonic production of a new sound event (based on a recording) - then my posting is indeed completely irrelevant.

And assuming that reproduction is the goal - then the same level of effort needs to be put into the speaker setup, room setup, and Room/Speaker EQ.

"EQ is not a dirty word...."



I believe the topic was what is it that makes the difference between MC and MM - and my point is that it doesn't matter which technology you use, if you adjust/calibrate it right to ensure it reproduces rather than creates...

(and I passed by a few other tangents in my usual free flowing consciousness writing style...)

bye for now

David

P.S. until 3 months ago I only owned MC - now I have mostly MM's - with 2 MC's and 1 SG in my repertoir.

 

[neobop]

David,
My post wasn't specifically addressed to you. There are advantages to each type of generator. Your results are indisputable. I wouldn't presume that they are not what you say. I could dispute your assumptions, arguments and conclusions, but I choose not to.

Some other people have different results. Theirs are just as valid as yours. Their assumptions and conclusions would be disputable too, if they made generalizations.

MC vs MM debates are like a nonproductive cough.
Bye,
neo

 

[lini]

David: I guess there'll always be a clash between the pure hifi and the more audiophile camp. In my view both approaches are ok, though I personally deem the former more difficult and possibly also less pleasing...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[tawny]

Thanks for the link. But not sure why you chose to quote the section you did. Seems that passage, in context to the rest of the article, is specific to the AT-OC9.

'the type of moving coil sound represented by the OC9'

'these rising-top moving coils'

'Like most of the moving coils reviewed in this survey'

'the rising-top moving coil sound'

'characteristic of this type of moving coil sound.'

 

[Suzuki]

Hello folks,
US rescue crew arrived in Japan and started operation. We are grateful for your aid.
Most serious accident is reportedly happening at the nuclear power plants in Fukushima pref. TV news here reports US newspapers describes what is happening there, possiblly more accurately than Japanese media.

 

[12ax7]

I'm glad to see you here. The disruption in your lives and the fears you must be feeling are incomprehensible to me. I've been following the news reports closely about the reactors and the second hydrogen explosion. It's claimed that everything is contained.

I wish you well and hope that all the uncertainty becomes more comforting news.

 

[beej]

Suzuki, it is indeed good to see that you are well and posting. A very rough time for you and your country men and women. Positive thoughts and well wishes to you and to them.

 

[voltcontrol]

I can't put into words how terrible the events in Japan are Suzuki, glad you're still with us.

 

[Suzuki]

Thank you everyone. It was luck of me the quake hit away from where I was. What we ought to be proud of is that we kept calm and there was little panic reported after the event. The serious concerns for now is possible collapse of the nuclear plants.
We have to make every effort to manage to keep the disaster as domestic.

 

[Balifly]

Thank you everyone. It was luck of me the quake hit away from where I was. What we ought to be proud of is that we kept calm and there was little panic reported after the event. The serious concerns for now is possible collapse of the nuclear plants.
We have to make every effort to manage to keep the disaster as domestic.

Very glad to hear that you are safe! :yes:

 

[kconnor]

My 2 cents. From what I ascertain back in the day MC cartridges for the most part were more expensive than MM cartridges and tended to have better quality styli. A definite advantage to owning a moving coil cartridge. That changed in the '70s. MM cartridges were being produced with styli on par with the best available and the tracking ability of the MM eventually eclipsed that of the MC cartridge.
In general Moving Coil cartridges also have a rising top end response between 15kHz and 20kHz that can masquerade as increased definition or impart a greater sense of "air" to the sound. Some people find that pleasing.

 

[neobop]

Not to single out any particular post, limited understanding of the electromechanical workings of the different kinds of carts, is what usually leads to bitter opposition. Nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, but enlightenment comes with knowledge.

The following, are the usual sited differences that account for a preference:
High vs low output
Higher vs lower inductance
phase shift
removable vs fixed cantilever
tip mass/moving mass
Body material/resonance
Energy imparted to tonearm, and implications

neo

Edit: I left out tracking ability because I think that no longer applies.

 

[neobop]

I have a Nagaoka's MP(Moving Permalloy) cart on the tone-arm now. High inductance of coil would cause high input imp to the phono amp, which will let the amp capture noise and interference. Yet, I hear, neo magnet is light and very srtong......

I'm not confident at all on this, however large inductance (L) can be offset virtually by adding small capacitance (C) in parallel to make a resonation circuit at a high freq in a proper segment.

Situation in Japan is tragic. We all hope for a quick recovery and return to normal for everyone.

Shunt capacitance combined with cart inductance has the effect of lowering the high frequency resonance of the cart. The mechanical HFR does not actually get lowered, the output res F does, electrically. This introduces phase nonlinearities relative to the output, lower in frequency than otherwise.

Capacitance should be kept as low as possible with high inductance carts. Frequency response correction should be implemented by changing resistance value of preamp input. Adding capacitance will often cause the cart to sound brighter by lowering electrical HFR to the treble region. The extreme high end will be rolled off by this, but it would sound brighter.

The mechanical aspect of virtually all carts has a rising high end. It's mechanical damping that controls this. It is also mechanical damping that causes phase nonlinearities in the audible band. LO carts should be "tuned" too, by using right resistive loading for individual cart and preamp/system. Some people load a OC9MKII at 20 ohms, or a Denon DL-S1 at 30 ohms. It takes some experimentation and works differently than loading a HO cart. Felix loads his stock M97 at 62K and I load a stock 440ML at 32K. There really is no standard. 47K or 100 ohms is what preamp manufacturers use and what cart manufacturers have to specify, or they wouldn't sell their cart.
neo