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Mo-Fi vinyl, CDs, SACDs, Digital Downloads & Hi-Rez Streaming

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drp1003

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I thought there would be more huffing & puffing here at AK about the ongoing dustup with Mobile Fidelity's use of digital files to create vinyl records.

First off, it's funny watching the audiophile YouTube community - with their analog/vinyl purity test in full temper tantrum mode - fleeing Mo-Fi like rats fleeing the Titanic. Imagine dancing up and down with absolute glee for decades thinking your super-valuable Mo-Fi record collection was 100% analog pure as a fresh driven snow., and going on YouTube and praising the company like it was Jesus the Miracle Worker walking on water, only to be kicked in the balls when you found out otherwise. A big LOL on that one.

Now, I would like to add one thing:

If Mo-Fi can take these old analog master tapes of all the classic albums we love from the '50s-'60s-'70s-'80s and essentially archive them to 4XDSD digital file format, then why the fck can't that be done on an industry-wide scale? The music industry needs to come to an agreement and pick a standard and get busy archiving and preserving these old analog tape masters. I'm sure they've done that, right? Right? RIGHT???

ANALOG TAPE IS NOT GONNA LAST FOREVER.

Does anyone here work in the music industry? Have you ever heard an analog master tape and compared it its digital archive, its DSD digital clone? How do they compare? Do they sound exactly the same? Does the DSD digital clone sound worse?

You'all have your mult-thousand dollar sound systems and you stream music on them, don't lie! I myself love Sirius/XM streaming service. Smooooth sailing on Yacht Rock channel 311.

What do I think? I own hundreds of vinyl albums. Most of them are old originals, and a growing number of them are new 180 gram reissues. Are they digital in some way? Probably? Do I care? No, not really.
 
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drp1003 said:
First off, it's funny watching the audiophile YouTube community - with their analog/vinyl purity test in full temper tantrum mode - fleeing Mo-Fi like rats fleeing the Titanic. Imagine dancing up and down with absolute glee for decades thinking your super-valuable Mo-Fi record collection was 100% analog pure as a virgin's honeypot, and going on YouTube and praising the company like it was Jesus the Miracle Worker walking on water, only to be kicked in the balls when you found out otherwise. A big LOL on that one.
Click to expand...

Meh.

Maybe I'm not watching the same YouTube videos you are, but what I'm seeing is people upset for two main reasons:

1. MOFI misrepresented what they were doing with respect to digital copies...
2. MOFI used that misrepresentation to jsutify limiting the supply of their product.

Both of which were used to justify higher prices for their releases compared to competitors.

I'm not seeing folks say that they don't like the sound of their MOFI favorites any less now than they did before - they just object to being mislead.
 
dcmfan said:
Meh.

Maybe I'm not watching the same YouTube videos you are, but what I'm seeing is people upset for two main reasons:

1. MOFI misrepresented what they were doing with respect to digital copies...
2. MOFI used that misrepresentation to jsutify limiting the supply of their product.

Both of which were used to justify higher prices for their releases compared to competitors.

I'm not seeing folks say that they don't like the sound of their MOFI favorites any less now than they did before - they just object to being mislead.
Click to expand...
Yep. I think two things will come of this:
1. These records will be cut in half, pricewise.
2. Class action lawsuit(s) against MoFi.

It's not about their subjective sound quality. It's about them saying they are pure analogue and charging accordingly. The results will be lawsuit(s) and lower price. Suddently I might be interested. I've not purchased a MoFi LP since the early 80's.
 
dcmfan said:
Meh.

Maybe I'm not watching the same YouTube videos you are, but what I'm seeing is people upset for two main reasons:

1. MOFI misrepresented what they were doing with respect to digital copies...
2. MOFI used that misrepresentation to jsutify limiting the supply of their product.

Both of which were used to justify higher prices for their releases compared to competitors.

I'm not seeing folks say that they don't like the sound of their MOFI favorites any less now than they did before - they just object to being mislead.
Click to expand...

I think that's absolutely it. If they marketed the stuff as being from perfectly made digital masters which are able to capture every bit of the sound on the original analog master tapes that they were recorded from it would different, but they chose to go with a story that everything was from the original analog masters.

I understand that super high quality, high res digital dubs of analog master tapes end up sounding so faithful to the originals that even experienced engineers can't tell them apart from the original analog versions that they were recorded from. If that's the case, then there would be no reason to wear out the original analog tapes and no need for limited editions like what MoFi sells. I kind of feel that LPs sound the way that they do not because of some kind of all-analog chain that they were made with, but because of the way that the whole vinyl format colors the sound. Folks don't like to admit though that their love of vinyl has less to do with it being some kind of faithful reproduction and more to do with the way that format colors the sound...
 
I have some of the "offending" albums. They sound fantastic, so I guess you can count me the "who cares" camp.

I mean, did MoFi ever actually lie about this? Or were consumers just assuming that it's a 100% analog process from start to finish -- because, I must admit I just buy records and don't pay much attention to the press releases. Was there any point where MoFi explicitly stated that the records in question were made entirely 100% using an analog-only process?

I think I always just assumed there was likely a digital step in the mastering process, because...well, we've been using computers to assist in cutting lacquers since the 1970s, so I figured we (meaning the industry) was still doing something digital in at least one of the steps, no matter how 'boutique' the label was.

UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED OTHERWISE.

I guess I'm the only one who probably a) made that assumption and b) didn't really care much as long as the resulting quality met or exceeded expectations.

Oh well, great-sounding records still sound great.
 
As one with 21 terabytes of wonderful hi-rez music, I give two shits if MoFi archived DIGITALLY these old master tapes, many of which are decades beyond their shelf life.

It has been said by Tom Scholz that he literally had to put his finger on the capstan to create drag, just so the masters of Third Stage could be copied and used. Some well-known issues with tape aging.

But yeah, it was a little bit disingenuous. I read the MoFi response, and it seemed like the prudent thing to do for archival.

BTW, what I've heard from them is always a high water mark.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong...
Before this recent dust-up about MOFI's lack of transparency, didn't people complain that MOFI applied a "Smiley Face" equalization to their remasters?

What's more important?
An accurate production description or a more accurate reproduction?
 
drp1003 said:
If Mo-Fi can take these old analog master tapes of all the classic albums we love from the '50s-'60s-'70s-'80s and essentially archive them to 4XDSD digital file format, then why the fck can't that be done on an industry-wide scale?
Click to expand...

I am quite sure Sony Music does. After all, DSD was Sony's creation. At the minimum, I believe Sony has already archived the catalog of Elvis and the titles from the old CBS Masterworks label to DSD. Any recent reissue from Elvis or the now Sony Masterworks are labelled as DSD remastered and are available for under $10.00 per CD. You can hear the improvements of the remastering even on inexpensive equipment.
 
soundboy said:
I am quite sure Sony Music does. After all, DSD was Sony's creation. At the minimum, I believe Sony has already archived the catalog of Elvis and the titles from the old CBS Masterworks label to DSD. Any recent reissue from Elvis or the now Sony Masterworks are labelled as DSD remastered and are available for under $10.00 per CD. You can hear the improvements of the remastering even on inexpensive equipment.
Click to expand...
I just got done watching THE SEARCHER. It's a two part documentary about Elvis on HBO MAX. Also, I watched Baz Luhrman's ELVIS; it's a new movie about Elvis Presley also HBO MAX.

I have a new appreciation for Elvis. I just might have to give these CDs a listen!
 
I just received my copy of MOFI's redo of Electric Light Orchestra's Eldorado. It is awesome.

Nowhere on any MOFI record actually said the words that there was a direct transfer from the master tape to the dead wax. It's an assumption made by the public at large. They do not disclose their process from the master tape to the dead wax as that is a company secret. Of course, the music did come from the "original" master tape, but it has been processed with modern technology to produce the best possible sound, considering the condition of the tape itself and the "at the time" technology used to make it in the first place. I have lots of MOFI LPs (a few CDs) and am glad I have them. They do a great job at recovery. If any of you have owned a tape recorder (my reVox A77 was with me for about 37 years), you will already know that tapes do have a shelf life and with time begin to "shed" iron oxide.

During the wonderful Covid lockdown, I bought the entire Beatles collection from Rubber Soul onward. The masters were in very bad condition and brought into the digital domain at a high resolution. The mastering folks claimed that they spent several years repairing distortions, fixing patches and so on, to produce the best possible archive of the Beatles as possible with current technologies. The albums sound awesome. Do the math in your head to discover how many years old these tapes are. It's from very hard work and effort that they exist in any format and still have some kind of quality to them.
 
Was reading more about this in the latest issue of TAS.

Seems media and reviewers are giving them the easy path and some customers the opposite. While I recognize that ambiguous representation of process leads to distrust, the net result of their records are nothing short of stellar. I personally think they are doing their best to cover their mistakes by being up front about the fact it was wrong, and that they are willing to earn back the trust of their customers. We all know too many people hold grudges on a continuous basis, so some will not be back. But I for one will, the have a great [product offering and after reading the article in TAS about the "why' of the digital step, it makes sense to me.
 
drp1003 said:
Hi,

I thought there would be more huffing & puffing here at AK about the ongoing dustup with Mobile Fidelity's use of digital files to create vinyl records.

First off, it's funny watching the audiophile YouTube community - with their analog/vinyl purity test in full temper tantrum mode - fleeing Mo-Fi like rats fleeing the Titanic. Imagine dancing up and down with absolute glee for decades thinking your super-valuable Mo-Fi record collection was 100% analog pure as a fresh driven snow., and going on YouTube and praising the company like it was Jesus the Miracle Worker walking on water, only to be kicked in the balls when you found out otherwise. A big LOL on that one.

Now, I would like to add one thing:

If Mo-Fi can take these old analog master tapes of all the classic albums we love from the '50s-'60s-'70s-'80s and essentially archive them to 4XDSD digital file format, then why the fck can't that be done on an industry-wide scale? The music industry needs to come to an agreement and pick a standard and get busy archiving and preserving these old analog tape masters. I'm sure they've done that, right? Right? RIGHT???

ANALOG TAPE IS NOT GONNA LAST FOREVER.

Does anyone here work in the music industry? Have you ever heard an analog master tape and compared it its digital archive, its DSD digital clone? How do they compare? Do they sound exactly the same? Does the DSD digital clone sound worse?

You'all have your mult-thousand dollar sound systems and you stream music on them, don't lie! I myself love Sirius/XM streaming service. Smooooth sailing on Yacht Rock channel 311.

What do I think? I own hundreds of vinyl albums. Most of them are old originals, and a growing number of them are new 180 gram reissues. Are they digital in some way? Probably? Do I care? No, not really.
Click to expand...
You know, there shouldn't be any "huffing and puffing" as by all measurable parameters, digital recordings are far superior. No problem making records or other things from them. They will have superior quality in terms of musical fidelity. :)
 
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