• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Modern Preamps for Dynaco ST-70 and MK III

@TroutBear nice recommendation on the Hafler! Didn’t even think of that one and I even have one hooked up to a Carver M200 and a pair of AR 92’s. Nice unit.

I would also recommend an Adcom or B&K, both can be found for reasonable money. Does the OP have a budget?
No budget. I'm just kicking tires and slamming doors here, or looking for the range of people's comments on this topic. I generally don't set budget parameters on post like these as I like to read the full gamut of experiences. From that I end up having to figure out how deep I'm willing to go into my pockets.
 
I have a Mac C24 - vintage SS preamp - with my DG boarded ST-35 and have been pleased with the pair. The Hafler DH-101 preamp was a nice unit for a basic SS pre-amp they are still around at bargain prices with a bit of searching, plus upgrades have been published - need to find the time to go through mine and implement some of those updates.
I gave a Hafler DH 110 to a buddy of mine years ago. I also gave him the matching tuner and equalizer. He never got around to using any of the stuff. Maybe I should ask for the preamp back!
 
I used a PAS-3X with upgraded components to drive my ST-70 for many years until I inherited an Audio Research SP14. Now, that's obviously not a fair competition since the SP14 is a much higher-end product than the PAS ever was. The biggest difference I noticed was in the control of the bass, long observed as a shortcoming of the PAS. The PAS has a lovely midrange, but if you have music where well-timed, tight bass is important, the PAS struggles to give you that. There was an article many years ago by a guy named Norman Koren where he analyzed the PAS circuit and found a tendency to subsonic resonance.

I think the problem with a lot of vintage preamps is that they simply have too much stuff in the signal path, lots of switches that people rarely use, but which can degrade the signal when they start to oxidize. It's a balancing act. Sometimes I listen to audiobooks and might want to EQ the reader's voice to remove low frequencies if they were speaking too close to the mic, but if you want accurate reproduction that makes you feel like you're in the room with the musicians, you tend to get that from designs with fewer features.

I've been too busy in recent years, but I would like to build my own preamp, probably one of the tube designs like the Aikido. I have lots of 6SN7s. I even have a chassis enclosure I bought to build a preamp that I've never used.
 
Last edited:
I used a Hafler 100 preamp for a few years with my ST-70 and that's a great sounding preamp. They're cheap and easily to work on. I then tried a Marantz SC-6 preamp and now I'm done. It sounds so good I have no desire to even try another preamp in this system. Output one from the pre goes to the matching SM-6 amplifier and output two goes to the ST-70. It's been my "end game" system for the last few years. The only decision I have to make now is Tubes or Class A?
 
I used a PAS-3X with upgraded components to drive my ST-70 for many years until I inherited an Audio Research SP14. Now, that's obviously not a fair competition since the SP14 is a much higher-end product than the PAS ever was. The biggest difference I noticed was in the control of the bass, long observed as a shortcoming of the PAS. The PAS has a lovely midrange, but if you have music where well-timed, tight bass is important, the PAS struggles to give you that. There was an article many years ago by a guy named Norman Koren where he analyzed the PAS circuit and found a tendency to subsonic resonance.

I think the problem with a lot of vintage preamps is that they simply have too much stuff in the signal path, lots of switches that people rarely use, but which can degrade the signal when they start to oxidize. It's a balancing act. Sometimes I listen to audiobooks and might want to EQ the reader's voice to remove low frequencies if they were speaking too close to the mic, but if you want accurate reproduction that makes you feel like you're in the room with the musicians, you tend to get that from designs with fewer features.

I've been too busy in recent years, but I would like to build my own preamp, probably one of the tube designs like the Aikido. I have lots of 6SN7s. I even have a chassis enclosure I bought to build a preamp that I've never used.
6SN7's are a good choice for the Aikido. If prices weren't so insane, I would get some NOS 6SN7's for mine.
 
If you know how to solder take a look at the Bottlehead Moreplay kit, it's fun to build, sounds fantastic and comes with almost moron proof assembly instructions. There is a variety of tubes you can roll, such as 6AQ5, 7C5 and 6K6. Another option is to build a clone of their (Bottlehead) Quickie battery powered preamp, very simple design and uses the 3S4 tube in triode mode.
 
I'm also using a Pas with my Van Alstine ST 70 or a 300B SE amp but it's a totally new build with modern high quality parts. The signal path only goes through the selector switch. I have been very happy with it even though it has known shortcomings.
 
I'm also using a Pas with my Van Alstine ST 70 or a 300B SE amp but it's a totally new build with modern high quality parts. The signal path only goes through the selector switch. I have been very happy with it even though it has known shortcomings.
How does the Van Alstine ST 70 compare to the original unit? I first stumbled into tubes back in the 1980s and, like a lot of folks, the ST 70 was my "gateway drug" into tube electronics. Actually, my introduction was a Mcintosh 240 and matching preamp a college room mate of mine came into at a base auction on Vandenberg AFB for a stupid low price. As Mcintosh prices have always been astronomical, Dynaco units became my substitute amp and preamp because back then you could go into the Soundwell in Berkeley and get a good ST 70 for 85-bucks (or about 250-bucks today) or a MC 240 for 800 (or about 2400-bucks today). I soon thereafter learned about Van Alstine's modification of the ST 70. However, I never jumped into that end of the hifi pool and have been curious ever since.
 
Last edited:
I have two "ST-70's" in my collection - the quotation marks because neither are truly stock. One is pretty close having the original 7199 circuit driver board, but modified with a beefed up Tubes4hifi power transformer to handle dual rectifiers. The other is modified with Triode Electronics driver and cap boards as well as a beefier power xformer. Both are driven through a switch with my Schiit Saga+ which, to be honest, only serves as a remote volume control/input selector. I could probably live with just using the DAC input using its volume control but sometimes I like to use the turntable when I'm feeling like reliving my college days (sigh). My setup with the Saga only allows control of volume and input and is essentially a passive preamp. The "+" in the Saga is a tube buffer for long cable leads (which I may or may not need but opted for just in case).
 
How does the Van Alstine ST 70 compare to the original unit? I first stumbled into tubes back in the 1980s and, like a lot of folks, the ST 70 was my "gateway drug" into tube electronics. Actually, my introduction was a Mcintosh 240 and matching preamp a college room mate of mine came into at a base auction on Vandenberg AFB for a stupid low price. As Mcintosh prices have always been astronomical, Dynaco units became my substitute amp and preamp because back then you could go into the Soundwell in Berkeley and get a good ST 70 for 85-bucks (or about 250-bucks today) or a MC 240 for 800 (or about 2400-bucks today). I soon thereafter learned about Van Alstine's modification of the ST 70. However, I never jumped into that end of the hifi pool and have been curious ever since.
The Ultravalve is a fantastic amp. It is a product of Mr VanAlstine's years of tweaks to the original circuit. From what I understand the plates of the driver tubes are regulated (6GH8A) along with a few other tweaks. The basic circuit is the same as the original. The amp utilized the same circuit mods as his U70 retrofit board but is built as a new amp on a slightly different chassis than the original. It has deep powerful base and beautiful highs. I can listen for hours with no fatigue. I also have an ST 70 Series 2 which is closer to the original circuit, while my series 2 is a very nice and dependable amp the Ultravalve is steps above. I get as much enjoyment from my Ultravalve as I get with my kit built (Cary) SE-1. When examining the parts used they are standard components, some dale resistors but no boutique capacitors. The build quality is excellent, it's an amp I will never sell. I just retubed it with a set of JJ EL34's after a stock EH 6CA7 began to get noisy after 5 years of use.
 
I use SS preamps on my tube amplifiers.
Get an inexpensive one with both Phono type inputs even for a trial.
I use a NAD 1000 to test tube amps when servicing them. It really mates up well.
Use a Denon PRA-QS10 as a daily driver. Having a pair of Dynaco MK IV’s can attest to a very sweet combo.
 
Yep. I used a few PAS preamps in stock and modified form and prefer the Chinese M7 clone. It’s a significant upgrade.
You can go crazy with the M-7 board kit and replace the coupling caps, other film caps, and electrolytics with fancier ones, but it does sound pretty darn good with what's suppied in the kit, or the various finished M-7 preamps.
 
I'm in the minority here but I greatly enjoy restoring PAS preamps and think they sound fantastic. I like EQ controls on my preamp, and even on something like an SCA-35. I really enjoy adjusting treble and think it enhances my listening experience greatly. As long as I get goosebumps and enjoy the listen that's all that matters. I also really like knowing that I rebuilt the amp and had a hand in its quality. It's like growing your own vegetables, who knows if they're better than the synthetic store bought gmo tomatoes, but they taste sweeter because I grew them.

It's also nice to look at data that supports my opinion, thanks Audio Regenesis -
 
I used a PAS-3X with upgraded components to drive my ST-70 for many years until I inherited an Audio Research SP14. Now, that's obviously not a fair competition since the SP14 is a much higher-end product than the PAS ever was. The biggest difference I noticed was in the control of the bass, long observed as a shortcoming of the PAS. The PAS has a lovely midrange, but if you have music where well-timed, tight bass is important, the PAS struggles to give you that. There was an article many years ago by a guy named Norman Koren where he analyzed the PAS circuit and found a tendency to subsonic resonance.

I think the problem with a lot of vintage preamps is that they simply have too much stuff in the signal path, lots of switches that people rarely use, but which can degrade the signal when they start to oxidize. It's a balancing act. Sometimes I listen to audiobooks and might want to EQ the reader's voice to remove low frequencies if they were speaking too close to the mic, but if you want accurate reproduction that makes you feel like you're in the room with the musicians, you tend to get that from designs with fewer features.

I've been too busy in recent years, but I would like to build my own preamp, probably one of the tube designs like the Aikido. I have lots of 6SN7s. I even have a chassis enclosure I bought to build a preamp that I've never used.
"While possible effects can be modeled, and measured, how likely is it that conducive conditions would ever be encountered in actual use? In the PAS 2/3 test case, where the line stage was already driven, undistorted, to the point where most power amplifiers would be severely be overloaded, it took an additional subsonic "peak" input level nearly twice as great to induce distortion. Furthermore, the conditions required to induce distortion occurred with the volume control set to maximum, something that would rarely occur with any regularity in the real world. At more realistic volume settings, subsonic input levels would be attenuated significantly, further reducing the likelihood of overload induced distortion. In reality, the subsonic anomaly is likely more of a curiosity rather than a concern."

https://www.audioregenesis.com/documents/dynaco-pas-line-stage-analysis.pdf
 
I think the Erhard audio upgrades have been mentioned. I'll recommend those as well. I've used the tone control and the Aikido line stages. The Aikido won out for me. Never adjusted the tone controls anyway. I added the loudness control option to the Aikido. It adds a little extra sauce for very low volume listening. Nice effective circuit. I also have the PH20 phono stage. I use this preamp with VTA 70, VTA MK3s and scratch built 6L6G SEUL and 2A3 SET.

These have no relationship to the PAS sound in any way. Clear, clean modern tube preamps living in a vintage chassis. I was able to directly compare it to a PAS 3x I refreshed. While the PAS 3x was nice in its own way, there is simply no comparison if you're not after the colored vintage tone.

These boards and fantastic regulated power supply can be installed in anything you want, but they are built to retrofit the PAS chassis. I designed my own face plate to suit my preferred control layout, but modern PAS copies made to fit various control layouts are also sold if you want to freshen up the look.

Same product, new owner and website
https://dynaupgrades.com/?v=0b3b97fa6688
 
I think the Erhard audio upgrades have been mentioned. I'll recommend those as well. I've used the tone control and the Aikido line stages. The Aikido won out for me. Never adjusted the tone controls anyway. I added the loudness control option to the Aikido. It adds a little extra sauce for very low volume listening. Nice effective circuit. I also have the PH20 phono stage. I use this preamp with VTA 70, VTA MK3s and scratch built 6L6G SEUL and 2A3 SET.

These have no relationship to the PAS sound in any way. Clear, clean modern tube preamps living in a vintage chassis. I was able to directly compare it to a PAS 3x I refreshed. While the PAS 3x was nice in its own way, there is simply no comparison if you're not after the colored vintage tone.

These boards and fantastic regulated power supply can be installed in anything you want, but they are built to retrofit the PAS chassis. I designed my own face plate to suit my preferred control layout, but modern PAS copies made to fit various control layouts are also sold if you want to freshen up the look.

Same product, new owner and website
https://dynaupgrades.com/?v=0b3b97fa6688
So did Holger sell the PAS part of his business?
 
Back
Top Bottom