I didn't realize I wasn't supposed to do that, I've taken the link down. Thanks for the heads up and all the info!
Modern vs the Classics: Is speed control needed these days?
I didn't realize I wasn't supposed to do that, I've taken the link down. Thanks for the heads up and all the info!
Balifly
Listening
In defense of the Technics SL-Q303.
It it a mid level consumer series, a very solid and capable machine.
The fully automatic turn table is the top of the line in the Japanese turntable hierarchy.
Followed by the semi - automatic and lastly the entry level manual turn table.
Can not comment on the price, not familiar with the local market condition.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-q303.shtml
ODS123
Super Member
To ask if speed control (which is a means of ensuring accuracy) is needed, is to ask if being on-key is necessary.
In this hobby we absolutely obsess over such faint incalculable nuances such as PRAT, voicing, etc.. so to think we'd expect ANYTHING less notes being perfectly on pitch is anathema to me. It would be like telling a musician to be relaxed and casual about tuning his/her guitar or piano.
In this hobby we absolutely obsess over such faint incalculable nuances such as PRAT, voicing, etc.. so to think we'd expect ANYTHING less notes being perfectly on pitch is anathema to me. It would be like telling a musician to be relaxed and casual about tuning his/her guitar or piano.
I mean, it kind of depends on your ear. My table was spinning at 33.34 when brand new, but one day a couple weeks after I got it I was really paying attention and it seemed like the sound was a little bit higher pitch than it should have been. Sure enough I checked it and it read 33.59. I tweaked a little by adding a couple strips of electrical tape to the pulley and it's back down to 33.36 now. That's close enough as far as I'm concerned, but the 33.59 definitely was not, to my ear, even though that's within the supposed 2% tolerable variance.
Now, how many people could've picked that out? Probably not very many at all. And I'm hardly Mr. Golden Ears Audiophile, I'm just really sensitive to pitch. Probably because I hate treble.
Now, how many people could've picked that out? Probably not very many at all. And I'm hardly Mr. Golden Ears Audiophile, I'm just really sensitive to pitch. Probably because I hate treble.
MisterDK
Addicted Member
I think that my ears don’t notice -slight- speed imperfections - as long as the speed doesn’t fluctuate while you’re listening. That said, there’s a good reason why platter mass used to be - massive - on better turntables. Nothing wrong with quartz lock direct drives, but I still like massive platters to lessen fluctuation. Kind of why I like my Empire 208 based tables. Nice, beefy platter - well balanced too, and with a hefty Archimedes Screw type, oiled spindle bearing to last a good while. If you shop around, a servicable Empire 208/298/398 can be found for the price of a new plastic fantastic..
lico
Super Member
In general I don't trust smart phone apps to measure speed accuracy or w&f. I can drop one on a quartz locked table with the strobe dots solid and read 33 (should it not be 33.33?). Try again read .1 or .2 different. Kind of depends on the phone and the app and I think the RPM calculators end up causing more confusion than anything, now everyone is a turntable speed expert.
alrighty so i'll think on the Q303 with the AT3600L, from what i see on a different thread, The Q303 still beats out the SL-5200 by a fair amount, but there's also that as an offering... I'm not sure what the cart is, but it looks like this: i've done my best to enhance the image.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Any of the following available locally: MCS 6601 (or 6602), MCS 6700 or Technics SL-1500? These are three vintage direct drive models I have experience with and recommend as well-built, reliable, affordable vintage tables.
Those MCS models were made by Panasonic, the same folks that built the Technics models. The MCS 6601 (back) and 6602 (silver) are actually improved versions of the SL-2000 (they added auto return). The MCS 6700 is an upgraded/improved version of the SL-1950. Very nice tables that fly under the radar because the don't say Technics on them.
The SL-1500 is a totally manual model, but the easiest to service vintage direct drive I have ever worked on. With so few moving parts, there really isn't much needed to service one (clean the speed adjustment pots and speed selector switch, oil the spindle, and if needed, replace the heavy weight silicon oil in the cueing mechanism). Once serviced, it was the quietest table I have ever owned. The last one I worked on was 42 years old and had never been serviced. After the above serving, it will provide many more years of reliable service. You can sometimes get a good deal on one that needs serviced. Ironically, given the title of the thread, the biggest "problem" with the SL-1500 is the inability to hold speed. The solution is simple - clean the pots and don't forget the speed selector switch. The tonearm on this model is also easily replaced, should you decide you want to upgrade to a different arm at some point.
Those MCS models were made by Panasonic, the same folks that built the Technics models. The MCS 6601 (back) and 6602 (silver) are actually improved versions of the SL-2000 (they added auto return). The MCS 6700 is an upgraded/improved version of the SL-1950. Very nice tables that fly under the radar because the don't say Technics on them.
The SL-1500 is a totally manual model, but the easiest to service vintage direct drive I have ever worked on. With so few moving parts, there really isn't much needed to service one (clean the speed adjustment pots and speed selector switch, oil the spindle, and if needed, replace the heavy weight silicon oil in the cueing mechanism). Once serviced, it was the quietest table I have ever owned. The last one I worked on was 42 years old and had never been serviced. After the above serving, it will provide many more years of reliable service. You can sometimes get a good deal on one that needs serviced. Ironically, given the title of the thread, the biggest "problem" with the SL-1500 is the inability to hold speed. The solution is simple - clean the pots and don't forget the speed selector switch. The tonearm on this model is also easily replaced, should you decide you want to upgrade to a different arm at some point.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
My last Belt drive TT was given to my parents in 1976. Since then, all my TT's are direct drive. I've not had an issue regarding speed control since 1976. Even my "worst" turntable, an AT120 is rock steady and, speed and rumble wise, competes with turntables in the four figure price range.
patient_ot
Super Member
I would not be concerned with the cartridge that used TT comes with. That can always be changed, and if the stylus is used, it'll need to be replaced anyway. You can put a $20 starter cart on any used TT to get you going while you save for something better.
With regards to the SL-1500 and replacement tonearms, there was also the SL-150, in both original and Mk2 versions, which were sold without tonearm. The original version was configured to use the SME 3009 tonearm. It doesn't have a hole cut in the base / rear foot support to allow for clearance with the bottom portion of the vertical pillar / interconnects of many other tonearms. Of course the SL-1500, never designed to have its tonearm replaced, would have the same issue. So some surgery on either may be required. The Mk2 version of the SL-150 does have a hole in the base and even came with foot extensions to raise the base up to provide for clearance. Not sure if the hole would have to be enlarged for some tonearms (which is the case with a number of tonearms retrofitted to the SL-1200 series ... and as a side note there was also a SL-120 (original) and SL-120 Mk2 versions that sold without arms). All these non-arm versions are fairly rare.
The later SL-1800 (original and Mk2) didn't have a separate '180' version. Probably because it's also a 'suspended' design which further complicates retrofitting with a replacement tonearm.
One thing to keep in mind is that with the manual Technics decks, any one of them could have been pressed into DJ service and have suffered just as much abuse as a SL-1200 series. I've had a SL-1800 (original) where the previous owner cranked the suspension down completely tight and managed to dent the tonearm wand and pooch the tonearm bearings during use. I've also got a pair of SL-1500 Mk2 turntables that were DJ rental units ... you cannot imagine!
The later SL-1800 (original and Mk2) didn't have a separate '180' version. Probably because it's also a 'suspended' design which further complicates retrofitting with a replacement tonearm.
One thing to keep in mind is that with the manual Technics decks, any one of them could have been pressed into DJ service and have suffered just as much abuse as a SL-1200 series. I've had a SL-1800 (original) where the previous owner cranked the suspension down completely tight and managed to dent the tonearm wand and pooch the tonearm bearings during use. I've also got a pair of SL-1500 Mk2 turntables that were DJ rental units ... you cannot imagine!
This is an interesting point. Even if I waited it out to catch a 1200 in my area, I still risk it being abused and not noticing the signs right away :/
It occurs with other turntables as well and one wonders what some people were thinking. I have a Pioneer PL-600 (the good direct-drive version), which is again suspended but also fully automatic. Idiot that had it before used the transport screws to secure top to bottom and then removed the sprung feet and jammed solid feet into the holes. That sort of brilliant thinking is pretty easy to identify! There's also a fellow somewhat locally that has been trying to sell (for a couple years I think) two Sansui SR-222 belt drive turntables (fully manual) as a DJ setup.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Of course, with any used table, as with a used car, condition and "mileage" are the key. The recent SL-1500 I serviced was and excellent++ cosmetic condition with zero signs of abuse. Even the dust cover had only minor swirl marks. It was quite clean for its age. It had just sat around, little used, for many years and needed simple tuneup to get it working like new.
