Money equals power

[WildWest]

http://toccionline.kizash.com/films/1001/178/index.php

I think this is supposed to be funny. Why am I crying? :cry:

 

[Dave918]

Because it's true, that's why

-dave

 

[vega ls-12]

hell yeah its true :grumpy:
when it takes 28.00 to fill a sentra, there is a problem.
uke: uke:

 

[VinylHanger]

When I go and get a "couple" of gallons to mow the lawn and it kills the biggest part of a 10 dollar bill, well, that just sucks. :thumbsdn:

 

[Sandy G]

Ahhh, quitcherbitchin'...y'all oughta have to feed an Excursion...$94 last week...$72 yesterday....-Sandy G.

 

[Sandy G]

Well, if the Gummint would be so kind as to temporarily waive the taxes on a gallon of gas...and the good ol' EPA would let us have one formula gas for the whole country, and would have let the big bad oil companies built a few more refineries, gas MIGHT be a tad lower. Boys, we're our own worst enemies in a lot of this stuff. I ain't complainin' on the Excursion, though-I knew the job was dangerous when I took it, Fred !. Just wish I could afford to get a Diesel Beetle like my sister has-55 MPG, & the little sucker goes like a mad bee. She fills it up 1st of the month, doesn't fool w/it till about the 3rd or 4th week.. I'd keep the Prunkwagen-What could I get for an 85K mile, 6 yr old 10 MPG wonder? I'd be lucky if I didn't have to pay THEM to take the damn thing...-Sandy G.

 

[Andyman]

Well, if the Gummint would be so kind as to temporarily waive the taxes on a gallon of gas...

Put down the crack pipe, buddy!

 

[WhiteSE]

The issue is that cheap gas curbs research for alternatives,,,,no matter how cheap the gas it, it will run out eventually....I rather bypass the environmental damage of further drilling like in Alaska...and pressure the techno people to come up with alternatives...problem is not the technology sometimes, its who is entrenched in the power (oil).

 

[Lefty]

The issue is that cheap gas curbs research for alternatives,,,,no matter how cheap the gas it, it will run out eventually....I rather bypass the environmental damage of further drilling like in Alaska...and pressure the techno people to come up with alternatives...problem is not the technology sometimes, its who is entrenched in the power (oil).

Sounds like a typical greenie party line aurgument to me. Let the goverment(s) fix it with social engineering, they know best :scratch2: The truth is change will happen when consumers change THEIR behaviors and market forces will change to meet their demands. Gas priced too high, buy less...

Lefty

 

[WhiteSE]

Whats the greeniw argument? We all know that when something is cheap and companies make money of it, why rock the boat. Its all economic pressure that mainly drives R&D. If there was no end in sight to oil supplies, we would still be driving big ol' cars...

I didnt state that the gov't should solve anything, but I think its kind of naive to think that gov't and its politicians dont do things to favour themselves and the power money providers. Its all about power and lobbying.

Now, If wanting to tilt the resources for R&D for alternatives and at the same time keep some small section of the planet unruined, so be it.

Not buying the gas isnt an alternative now isnt it, as we all need to go work. The oil companies dont have your best interest at heart, but just their own,,,,at least the "greenie" aspect of it all, is more about keeping something that everyone can benefit from. Not everything in the planet has to exploited as a cash revenue (that is kind of retarded if you ask me).

 

[CarlV]

The truth is change will happen when consumers change THEIR behaviors and market forces will change to meet their demands. Gas priced too high, buy less...

Lefty

:thmbsp:


You wants to play, you gots to pay.

Carl

 

[WhiteSE]

I agree but that is when you talk about non essential commodities...When we stop driving altogether, what is going to happen, someone will come and build a mono-rail?

I dont buy that wallet speaks in this case....

 

[Lefty]

Whats the greeniw argument?

That capitalistic free enterpize companies are fundementaly evil and that only 'enlightend' goverment policy can keep them in check and protect the people.

We all know that when something is cheap and companies make money of it, why rock the boat. Its all economic pressure that mainly drives R&D.

Supply and demand dictates if somthing is cheap or not, not the companies themselves.

If there was no end in sight to oil supplies, we would still be driving big ol' cars...

Too many are still probably driving too big a car then is necessary, but then again that is consumer behavior at work, not the companies that sells fuel.

I didnt state that the gov't should solve anything, but I think its kind of naive to think that gov't and its politicians dont do things to favour themselves and the power money providers. Its all about power and lobbying.

Well there are many types of goverments in the world and they serve many interest group, but mostly goverments serve their own self interest the most, IMO. I have yet to hear of any goverment in the world having temporiarly cut back on fuel taxes during this latest price spike, rather they benefit with an automatic income boost as fuel prices rise as many of the taxes are based as a percentage of selling price. Convient for them, no? Well I guess that the goverments themself have to purchase fuel and it wouldn't be fair for them to have to share the pain of raising price, would it?

Now, If wanting to tilt the resources for R&D for alternatives and at the same time keep some small section of the planet unruined, so be it.

Companies are free to allot funds for any R&D programs that are allowed within the laws of their countries. Supply and demand and free economic oppertunity will serve better then most govermental methods of
progress. If a particulary company does not invest enough in R&D some competitor will and clean their clock in the future.

Not buying the gas isnt an alternative now isnt it, as we all need to go work.

Not buying gas is probably not an alternative today for most, but buying LESS is certainly within any consumer's capablities. Consumers changing their behavior in their own self interests is a real market force that is underestimated and does not seem to gain any support of political interests. The power to vote in elections and to vote with your wallet are the only real power the people have, anything else is just serves self interests of others.

The oil companies dont have your best interest at heart, but just their own,,,,at least the "greenie" aspect of it all, is more about keeping something that everyone can benefit from. Not everything in the planet has to exploited as a cash revenue (that is kind of retarded if you ask me).

Oil companies are like any other large publicly own compaines. They have to serve the interests of their share holders, their customers ( yes even them!) and the laws of the countries they operate in. If you honestly think that the production and use of gasoline is exploiting the earth and should not be allowed, then you might question why you buy it. Does not your wallet support that exploitation every bit as much as any other part of the supply chain? It's always easier to blame someone or something else for something then to change one's own behavior to support one's beliefs. I think freedom of action is as important as one's freedom of speech, unless of course it interferes with someone else's freedoms.

I do hope you (or anyone) don't take my comments personal. I do enjoy a healthy debate on subjects like this and hope all can express their opinions freely. Who knows what each other can learn by listening and reading of others opinions :thmbsp:

Lefty

 

[approse]

Does not your wallet support that exploitation every bit as much as any other part of the supply chain? It's always easier to blame someone or something else for something then to change one's own behavior to support one's beliefs


:sigh:

IMHO...... this is one of the greatest understatements of all time! I guess it's just kinda a representation of the non-logic of the time, PC sensibilities outweigh the reality. What my point is in that is at least as concerns oil - we've pretty well blown off alternate sources of energy, nuclear is dead in the water, coal is viable but not being pursued much do to increased pollution costs, hydro isn't big enough.... so what's being used, oil and natural gas, in particular for the peak units that are used more and more steadily as demand increases. Unless your clothing is all cotton and wool, where's it coming from? Oil.... Fertilizer.... need it for our food.... used to use mostly coal fired production units. Nowadays, LP or natural gas...... everything in our lives is plastic (oil)...... I guess one could go on and on way more than I'll claim any knowledge. The world as a whole is and has listened to (at the time) cheap and nonrenewable way of supporting their lives. This isn't meant as a particular blast at anyone! I've bought just as many plastic coats as anyone else...... I don't know if we can have an effect by not buying something but we can by buying items made of renewable materials. I guess the chink in that is there's a lot of things where there aren't alternatives. No easy answers for sure.... :worried:

 

[shelby1420]

Last post was pretty friggin deep!!!! All i know is that i pay about 4.25 Here in Canada for a gallon, insane!!!!!

 

[CarlV]

I live by one of the worst pieces of freeway as far as congestion and with
these prices I see no change in the number of single occupied SUV's.
If the prices were that bad I would see more motorcycles or ridesharing is my thinking.
I just don't see any problem.

Carl

 

[approse]

Shelby,
Wasn't meant to be "deep" or offensive, just my limited ability I guess to express myself. Point was almost everything in our lives is "of" oil or has oil involved in the process somewhere.

Ron

 

[1420-1503]

I've seen busses in Istanbul working on hydrogene, and I've been told that's been the case for years now. So . I wonder about the potential of Hydrogene as an alternative?

 

[grumpy]

I live by one of the worst pieces of freeway as far as congestion and with
these prices I see no change in the number of single occupied SUV's.
If the prices were that bad I would see more motorcycles or ridesharing is my thinking.
I just don't see any problem.

Carl

I think what Carl and lefty said are valid points. If people were hurting that bad they just would not drive.

Thats not to say it doesn't hurt. When you get a tooth ache how many put off the dentist for months or longer. When the pain becomes unbearable we will see change...

On the other hand if the price of my bubble wrap goes up one more time due to oil prices then i have no choice to pass this on to my customers.. :grumpy:

 

[WhiteSE]

I have to chuckle at some points I guess.....Not everything has to be black or white...as in if you dont like oil companies, dont drive...lets get real. For better or for worse, all of us are stuck in a bit of vicious circle regarding oil.

I never said to stop all oil production to protect the environment, but at some point, some priorities have to change...why does it have to be later than sooner?

Yes, oil companies are just like anyother company, except that they have unparalleled power to sway political decisions in their favour..and that is a fact. My dad worked for govt and i know first hand the crap that goes on.

It gets to a point that the odds are always stacked in favour of the preferred in Washington. Even Haliburton won contracts in Nigeria by paying people off to make it a non-bidding process.

I am part of the system too, as I drive a gas guzzler, and there is no public transportation, distances are far,,,so the option of using my wallet and not buying gas isnt an option....WHat if the water company raised its prices like oil,,,what are you going to do, drink wine and beer instead?

But there was a time in the dawn of capitalism, when the companies actually wanted to offer good service as affordable as possible,,,that is not the case anymore. More sales = increased income,,,now its increased sales, increased income at higher prices...its not about the consumer anymore (well, it is as a comodity).