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Muddy, muffled, distorted sound from one Paradigm Model 3se speaker

Damien A

New Member
Forgive me if this is a covered subject, this is my first post here and I’m hoping someone on here has the answer I need to get these Paradigms back in order. I love this forum and have learned much from reading old threads.

So, this week I found a pair of Paradigm Model 3se’s at my local savers for $8. I cleaned them up and hooked them up to my Pioneer SX-450 in just the FM stage. At first they sounded great! Next I threw on some records. Started with a Grateful Dead record, sounded great. Then a soul/funk album in which I noticed some woofer pumping during side 2. So next I put on Funhouse by the stooges, a rather “loud” record and during the first song, the right speaker just dropped in clarity and volume. It’s very muddy sounding. There was no loud pop, buzz, or anything. Just a split second change to lesser quality sound from one speaker.

After doing some reading, I pulled out my multimeter and pulled both tweeters and drivers from the cabinets. All of which tested equally and in range.

I tried both tweeters and both drivers in each cabinet and all components worked when in the left speaker. After swapping drivers from their original cabinet, the sound actually returned to normal for about 20 minutes in both speakers, then suddenly during Bob Dylan’s Tangled Up in Blue, back to the muddy, low in volume sound in the right speaker. Swapping the tweeters produced no change in the problematic speaker or the good speaker.

As a novice, I was hoping it would be a simple tweeter replacement. But alas I’m stuck thinking it must be the “crossover”. I inspected it and there are no broken solder joints, no wires that seem damaged.

I’ve run these through my Pioneer Sx 450 & Technics sa 300. I’m also using a dual 1225 with a Pickering tl/2 moving magnet cart. I’ve also tried changing the speaker cables with no difference.


So with all this in mind, what are my options? I don’t know where to begin checking to see if the crossover or caps are the problem. I also do not have soldering equipment on hand, but have some soldering experience from when I repaired electric motors. But after swapping both drivers and tweeters into the left speaker and hearing them work properly i can only assume the right crossover is the issue. Are there replacement crossovers for this model available somewhere online? One option I see is a crossover from a Paradigm model 5se on eBay. It looks exactly like mine, same speaker connections and screw hole placements. I’m just unsure if a 5se part would be compatible in my 3se’s. There are also some Paradigm 3se MKII crossovers available on the bay, but have different speaker connections than my base model 3se’s. If anyone can give a novice some help, I’d greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance! I added some photos I took during the process of taking it apart if that’s helpful to anyone.
 

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So, could the 450 be the culprit ? Clean the switches ( all of them ) Sudden change in audio clarity or presence could come from
intermittent contacts.
Get yourself a can of Deoxit ( or equivalent ) and spray gently tone controls pots for a beginning.

Welcome to vintage world !

BTW, nice documented post !
 
So, could the 450 be the culprit ? Clean the switches ( all of them ) Sudden change in audio clarity or presence could come from
intermittent contacts.
Get yourself a can of Deoxit ( or equivalent ) and spray gently tone controls pots for a beginning.

Welcome to vintage world !

BTW, nice documented post !
I don’t believe it’s the pioneer as I’ve run other speakers just fine through it. I also tested the Paradigms on two other receivers I have that have been recently serviced and still I incurred the same audio issue. I also swapped cables with no change. I will certainly deoxit the pioneer as a precaution but I’m 99% sure that isn’t the issue.

Thanks for the intro, glad to be here. Long time reader of this great site.
 
The symptoms you describe generally are not caused by the speaker crossover. You say you play loud. I cannot judge what you consider loud, but the SX-450 is only a 15 wpc receiver and many would not consider it capable of playing most speakers "loud." I would suspect your receiver before the speakers. Also, the woofers pumping indicates that you may be using more power than you think.

The easiest test in your situation is to swap speakers between channels. It sounds like you have done everything but that. Connect the right speaker to the left channel at the receiver and connect the left speaker to the right channel. If the same physical speaker acts up, then you narrowed it down to the speaker. If the problem follows the channel, it is your receiver.

Do you have the first generation 3se? (that is, not the MK II)

If everything continues to point to the one speaker, I would do a complete visual inspection. Does the crossover in the malfunctioning speaker look good? No discolored components. No burnt areas. No lose components or bad looking solder joints. Are the connections at each of the drivers solid and look good?

The crossovers between differ vastly between my 3se and 5se, both original and not the MK versions. I would not use the 5se crossover in a 3se. The crossovers are constructed entirely different, which leads me to believe that the drivers between the two models are also different.

This is the crossover from my original 3se. It has a 4.7 uF cap, a resistor, and an inductor.
2017-11-06 Paradigm 3se crossover small.jpg

This picture shows my original 5se crossover. It is much more complex than the crossover in the 3se.
2018-04-13 Paradigm 5se small.jpg

I recapped the 3se and it sounds good. I did not bother recapping the 5se and it sounds fantastic.
 
Thought I could nail it...


Hope you'll find the issue and get in tune with the Paradigm's...

I've come to the same (almost ) trouble.. with Dynaco's tweeter. Getting them higher volume tends to '' unblock '' the tweeter.
But, never came to be able to solve the mystery..
 
The symptoms you describe generally are not caused by the speaker crossover. You say you play loud. I cannot judge what you consider loud, but the SX-450 is only a 15 wpc receiver and many would not consider it capable of playing most speakers "loud." I would suspect your receiver before the speakers. Also, the woofers pumping indicates that you may be using more power than you think.

The easiest test in your situation is to swap speakers between channels. It sounds like you have done everything but that. Connect the right speaker to the left channel at the receiver and connect the left speaker to the right channel. If the same physical speaker acts up, then you narrowed it down to the speaker. If the problem follows the channel, it is your receiver.

Do you have the first generation 3se? (that is, not the MK II)

If everything continues to point to the one speaker, I would do a complete visual inspection. Does the crossover in the malfunctioning speaker look good? No discolored components. No burnt areas. No lose components or bad looking solder joints. Are the connections at each of the drivers solid and look good?

The crossovers between differ vastly between my 3se and 5se, both original and not the MK versions. I would not use the 5se crossover in a 3se. The crossovers are constructed entirely different, which leads me to believe that the drivers between the two models are also different.

This is the crossover from my original 3se. It has a 4.7 uF cap, a resistor, and an inductor.
View attachment 2917708

This picture shows my original 5se crossover. It is much more complex than the crossover in the 3se.
View attachment 2917707

I recapped the 3se and it sounds good. I did not bother recapping the 5se and it sounds fantastic.
Thank you for the response. And yes, my crossovers look like your 3se’s exactly. I figured the 5se wouldn’t be compatible but I figured it was worth asking.

I have the base model first gen 3se with the rubber surrounds. I will try the speaker test swapping channels tomorrow or Monday, when I get the time. I do not suspect it’s my receiver as I’ve tried these Paradigms on 3 separate receivers. The SX450, a Technics SA300, and Kenwood KR4070. None of these receivers are super “loud” but I’m currently in a small apartment, so these fit my needs and both the Kenwood and Technics have recently been serviced. I typically run some small Polk M4s that sound great with any receiver, the pioneer included. Did you recap the whole crossover or just what had failed? Where do you get replacements? Sorry for the bombarding of questions. I feel I’m close to solving this and would love to keep these. The 30 minutes or so that I got out of them was very nice sounding.
 
Should add that the crossover looks fine visually. No damaged solder joints, no burnt areas. The connectors are all clips that look clean and connect to the drivers/tweeters very well. I haven’t really check the crossover with my multimeter though.
 
Hi Damien, Welcome to the forum! My grandson has the same name and the same last name initial! Crazy!

Anyway, I have had the 3se's and if I remember correctly, they are 6 ohm speakers perhaps, but irregardless, they behave like them. I have tested out speakers that were 8 ohms but behave like 4 ohm speakers. Those kind performed best with units capable of driving 4 ohm speakers. It is very possible you pushed the SX-450 into clipping. Especially if you have the loudness on! In which case you probably damaged something in that speaker. What you are describing sounds very much like a blown tweeter. And if you then tried the same speakers in the same placement with your other receivers, you would see the same symptom. But you say you have swapped the tweeters around and the problem didn't move. Which is why you think it is the crossover.

A quick way to check is to put a multimeter across the positive and negative terminals of each speaker and measure the resistance. Do that with the working speaker, and if they are the same or very close, then it probably isn't the speaker.

Have you looked at your speaker cable?
 
Hi Damien, Welcome to the forum! My grandson has the same name and the same last name initial! Crazy!

Anyway, I have had the 3se's and if I remember correctly, they are 6 ohm speakers perhaps, but irregardless, they behave like them. I have tested out speakers that were 8 ohms but behave like 4 ohm speakers. Those kind performed best with units capable of driving 4 ohm speakers. It is very possible you pushed the SX-450 into clipping. Especially if you have the loudness on! In which case you probably damaged something in that speaker. What you are describing sounds very much like a blown tweeter. And if you then tried the same speakers in the same placement with your other receivers, you would see the same symptom. But you say you have swapped the tweeters around and the problem didn't move. Which is why you think it is the crossover.

A quick way to check is to put a multimeter across the positive and negative terminals of each speaker and measure the resistance. Do that with the working speaker, and if they are the same or very close, then it probably isn't the speaker.

Have you looked at your speaker cable?

Greetings! Thank you for the intro and wow that is a funny coincidence!

You are correct about these being 6 ohm speakers, and you are also correct about the loudness having been on!

So after a few days of playing around, taking both speakers completely apart and testing each component with the multimeter I found no culprits. I tried the channel swap while leaving the speakers in the same place, and the problem didn’t change speakers. I retested each component and did the speaker terminal test for the crossover which showed an equal 4.2 ohm reading from both.

I gave up last night as my girlfriend surprised me with concert tickets to Dead & Co at Fenway in Boston and I had even contacted a speaker buddy of mine about taking a look at these earlier in the day. I was ready to give up. Then this morning I had the itch to play with the speaker cables, the only piece I hadn’t truly inspected or thought much to being the problem. I cut and stripped some new ends of the cable to get some shiny copper showing. Since then all has been well. I’ve been running these all day for nearly 12 hours or so. I even left the radio going while I was out and now I’m about 2.5 hours into some vinyl spinning and these Paradigms sound really good. I’m kindve mad at myself for overlooking such a simple thing, but I’ve had these cables for years and never had that issue. I guess it was just time for some new leads going in after all & definitely a learning experience about not forgetting the basics. I can’t thank everyone who replied enough as I learned so much during this. I hadn’t even opened a speaker before this never mind testing crossovers, tweeters, and drivers in Ohms on a multimeter. If any problems come back I will keep this thread updated for any other Paradigm users and myself as reference as I myself couldn’t find a whole bunch of troubleshooting info for these. I recently acquired the vintage audio gear bug and already have a couple pieces so I’m sure I’ll be here from now on. Thanks again everyone!
 
Hey Damien! I'm so glad you got it all working! Sometimes we get so carried away troubleshooting what we think is a complex problem only to find out it is a really easy fix! Trust me, I have done that many times. I suggested the wiring because if you have eliminated the speakers and the receiver (which you had) there is nothing else left!

I am very glad that no electronics got damaged. Use your ears, and if you hear any distortion, turn the volume down until they sound good again. Enjoy the music!
 
Well…. I’m back and with the same issue. Had these running well for a while but I’m now getting that muddy muffled distorted sound once again. I’ve narrowed the issue down to the crossover. One piece isn’t giving the same reading as the other. I will upload photos later to help understand, I’m sorry I lack the knowledge to call these pieces by their true name. I know the piece says “7W 3.6ohms” and is a white rectangular shaped piece soldered into the crossover.

I found someone on eBay who is selling 1 paradigm 3se speaker but it’s in Canada(im in the US) so shipping would be a lot. Although he said he has lots of spare paradigm parts and would get back to me later today if he has a 3se crossover.

Assuming that he doesn’t, what are my options here? I’ve tried googling the piece with the info that is printed on there but nothing comes up as an exact match. I can’t seem to find a model 3se crossover even though I see tons of other model paradigm crossovers for sale, just not my model. Do I just wait for a crossover to pop up for sale one day? Is there a crossover recap kit for these? I am out of ideas here
 
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