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MX134 and 7.1 surround Q's

MikeSp

MikeSp

Active Member
I need to clarify a couple of points regarding the MX134 and getting HD 7.1 surround from it.

Obviously there are no HDMI ports -- it is too old.

IF I input 7.1 channels of LPCM outputted as analog from a Blu-ray player's analog outputs into the 7.1 analog inputs of the MX134:

--will I achieve the DDTrue-HD and DTS HDMA 7.1 full surround bandwidth and sound?
--when the "External" input of the MX134 is selected, is there any control over crossover, bass management, speaker size, individual distances of speakers, etc. (I suspect not -- the manual is unclear to me in that regard)?
--while OT for this thread (yet related) -- if the answer to the previous question is NO -- there is no MX134 control over material inputted through all of the 7.1 analog inputs into the MX134, then are there equivalent adjustments in any or many of the Blu-ray players?

Thanks,

MikeSp
 
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The new Denon BR player has all of the decoders built in and 7.1 analog outputs.

Thanks,
Ron-C
 
ron-c said:
The new Denon BR player has all of the decoders built in and 7.1 analog outputs.

Thanks,
Ron-C
Click to expand...

As does the new Panasonic BD50 that is about out, and a new Sony this summer and a new Pioneer Elite in late summer and perhaps some other profile 2.0 players.

Thanks Ron, BUT about my questions -- especially the one about utilizing the 7.1 analog inputs of my MX134 and properly using the 7.1 outputs to the speakers -- if I use the 7.1 analog inputs from the Blu-ray player and set the input of the MX134 to External -- do I have ANY control over bass management, speaker distance, size of speakers, etc. by the setup menus in the MX134 OR do all of those settings need to be made in the player IF that particular player has any of those settings available to the user??? I ask since I need to survive while I wait for the MX138 and an all digital system (except once the DACs in the MX138 are used) ...

MikeSp
 
Mike

I ditto your questions as I am about to buy a Denon 3800 or the Pioneer 05. I was thinking about a MX120 or a 136, but neither is much of an advancement, other than HDMI, over my 134. The HDMI is only 1.1 on the Mac, which also is not much help.
 
Mike,

You will have as much control over all of the settings as the disk player allows. This has always been the same with soundtracks, DVD-A and SACD multi-channel sound.
You can adjust the trim levels on the MX as these are all analog.

Thanks,
Ron-C
 
CTBob said:
Mike

I ditto your questions as I am about to buy a Denon 3800 or the Pioneer 05. I was thinking about a MX120 or a 136, but neither is much of an advancement, other than HDMI, over my 134. The HDMI is only 1.1 on the Mac, which also is not much help.
Click to expand...

CT Bob -- I could easily be mistaken, but from another thread I got the impression that on the MX136, it was not possible to split off the HD LPCM audio inside the pre/pro from the HDMI and then send the video to the TV via HDMI -- thus being unable to use the HDMI 1.1 to bring in LPCM that was decoded from a player. Wish I knew to what extent the better BD Players can be set up to manage bass, etc. IF as I suspected, the Mx134 does not mess with the 7.1 analog that was already decoded into lossless audio. Since this is new turf for me (BD player capabilities for newer models), I will post on another forum some questions about BD player capabilities.

With the HDMI digital lossless HD audio capabilities of even the new $1600 pre/pros, the MX120 or MX136 are off of my short list as I await the MX138 that should at least match a $1600 pre/pro that even includes room equalization, video switching, decoding of all lossless HD audio formats, etc. The resale value of pre/pros that are missing new digital features are not very good either when compared to amps -- saw a $13K Lexicon rated 8/10 or 9/10 on A-gon listed for $4000 -- I cannot take that much of a hit on a MX136 after taking that hit on my MX134, and then turn around and purchase a MX138 (in retirement, I must be care in picking and choosing toys).

MikeSp
 
MikeSp said:
The resale value of pre/pros that are missing new digital features are not very good either when compared to amps -- saw a $13K Lexicon rated 8/10 or 9/10 on A-gon listed for $4000 -- I cannot take that much of a hit on a MX136 after taking that hit on my MX134, and then turn around and purchase a MX138 (in retirement, I must be care in picking and choosing toys).

MikeSp
Click to expand...

This is NOT a new trend, it has been happening since the mid 90s when Pro-Logic went to DD then manuf added DTS and the DD only processors went down. The trend with DD, dd-plus, dd-ex, dts-es, 6.1, 7.1, and now with DDtrue-HD and DTS-HS coming out this will continue to be a problem for resale value.

Frankly, I am not jumping on the bandwagon, I have a DTS-ES and DD-EX pre/pro right now, but I do NOT use those formats, I would rather run a Mac Pre/Pro used in DTS or normal DD with 5 good speakers, than run a cheaper pre/pro with 7 speakers of lesser quality. I solve this I run my HDMI and component cables straight to my TV for Video, then run the digital audio cables to the pre/pro (when I go Blue ray and want to use DDtrue-HD, I will run the 5.1 cables from the Blue ray player to my MX132).

I do agree, Mac needs to figure out a way to be "up to date" on the processing side of things, this is something they have struggled with for well over 10 years. They need to understand that is someone is going to spend 10k on a processor, NOT only should the sound be incredible, but the formats better be current and maybe even upgradable.

Like I said, I can get a MX132 to work great for my purposes, but I think Mc loses market share because of always being a little behind in the formats.
 
MikeSp
From Ron's post do you take it that the 134 will manage bass, treble, volume but not speaker size, speaker distance etc? Sort of like how my MVP861 has settings for speaker size and distance which apparently I must use it get 5.1 SACD passed to my 134 analog in. Excuse ignorance but just what is LPCM?
 
CTBob said:
MikeSp
From Ron's post do you take it that the 134 will manage bass, treble, volume but not speaker size, speaker distance etc? Sort of like how my MVP861 has settings for speaker size and distance which apparently I must use it get 5.1 SACD passed to my 134 analog in. Excuse ignorance but just what is LPCM?
Click to expand...

CTBob--I got the same meaning as did you from RonC's response, but need more info and have a call into my dealer and IF there is anything different or additional, I will post it.

LPCM = Linear Pulse Code Modulation or LinearPCM which is a method of digital encoding -- most Blu-ray players decode the audio data (hopefully lossless DD True HD or lossless DTS HD Master Audio) that is read on the disk into LPCM which then goes via HDMI to the receiver or pre/pro which it then sends to the amps (IF I correctly understand it). Some Blu-ray players can also or instead, send undecoded HD audio directly from the Blu-ray player to the pre/pro or receiver for decoding into LPCM which again, hopefully, is in either of the two lossless formats.

VERY few Blu-ray players can handle the decoding of DTS HD Master Audio whereas most of the new receivers (even very inexpensive ones) can decode ALL HD audio formats into LPCM that are bitstreamed to them.

Remember that lossless digital audio IS lossless and should exactly like the master AND should not sound different whether processed in the player or in the receiver (think RonC has mentioned that). ALSO -- since the HD audio stays in the digital domain via HDMI until it reaches the DACs in the pre/pro or the receiver, there should be little or no difference in audio quality whether in a $10K piece or a $1K piece... I have yet to read anything contrary to my last statement since I have yet to read any definitive comparisons between high end and CE pieces that are involved in the decoding of HD lossless audio using HDMI connectivity.

MikeSp
 
MikeSp - some great questions you raised. I too am interested in this as i am debating whether to invest in a temporary MX119/MX135 now or just wait for the newer procs.

Please let us know your outcome.
 
Jeez guys, this is pretty basic. The analog inputs, selected when you select External on the MX-134 are simply "pass-throughs". What you got coming in is what you get going out.
 
MikeSp said:
ALSO -- since the HD audio stays in the digital domain via HDMI until it reaches the DACs in the pre/pro or the receiver, MikeSp
Click to expand...

Actually, if you run 5.1 cables from the Blu Ray player to the 5.1 analog inputs of the Pre/Pro, wouldn't this be an analog signal and "pass thru" the pre/pro without being messed with? This is how I plan on listening to any material that will be in DDTrueHD or DTS-HD into my MX132
 
Unlike other pre-pros and HT receivers the MX units have analog volume controls, 8 of them, for eight channels. Since they are analog you can trim some of these up and down.

thanks,
Ron-C
 
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