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My Dream Cassette Deck (& R2R Too)

braxus

braxus

FeCr Type III
Realizing I dont really need another tape deck (I already have too many), and the fact the market today will probably never get back into cassettes (not like Reel to reel decks that are making a comeback) and make such a deck, I would trade the majority of them in for a dream deck like this one. I was milling around remembering the days when cassettes were popular. Had CD-R not killed the format for mainstream use, I wondered what kind of ultimate cassette deck could be made with what technology we have today. I came up with a Sony/Aiwa/Tandberg/Nakamichi/Revox hybrid. I'd love to hire the techs that worked on the best Tandberg (3014A), Nak (ZX-9), Aiwa (S9000), and Revox decks and get them to design this new deck. If I had the chance to design a high end deck for professional and consumer use today, here's what I'd ask for:

-High quality build with pro grade parts inside.
-3 choices of output stages- A: Solid state. B: Tubes in output stage. C. Digital output via firewire with choice of 24 bit 384/ 192khz or 1 bit DSD
-4 motor dual capstan with pressure pad lifter (capstans able to handle faster speeds)
-3 choices of speeds- A. 1 7/8 IPS. B. 3.75 IPS. C. 7.5 IPS.
-fast forward and rewind speed brakes to slow down cassette before stop
-real time tape counter with memory point programable
-4 choices of noise reduction with HX-Pro, Actilinear and DynEQ (Tandberg)- (all usable at all speeds) plus OFF (no noise reduction)- A. Dolby B. B. Dolby C. C. Dolby S. D. DBX type 2
-seperated sections for power, input, and output with honeycomb copper plated chassis (aka Pioneer CT93 and Sony TC-K555ESJ), center cassette position (Sony TC-K909ES), and vibration reducing wood base (Aiwa XK-S9000).
-best material for heads for sound quality (aka Naks), but also capable of very high input/output levels
-6N pure copper wiring inside
-3 head system with seperated record and playback heads (aka Naks and Tandberg)
-cassette shell damping clamp (aka Sony and Aiwa decks)
-digital display VU meters from -40 to +20 db with *post-equalized* metering and 0 dB corresponds to a 250 nanoweber/meter (nwb/m) flux level
-input direct mode bypassing balance control and other sections
-seperate fine bias control for left and right channels (aka Naks and Teacs)
-return of the type 3 setting for recording/ playback, as well as type 1, 2, and 4 settings
-record EQ setting plus record level for Dolby/DBX
-auto tape bias/level control/head alignment for recording with 4 test tone generator (aka Pioneer CT-93)
-record mode that turns off erase head for better signal to noise ratio on virgin tapes (aka Aiwa XK-S9000)
-balanced signal paths (aka Rotel), common ground paths (aka Luxman), and dual mono audio board (Sony TC-KA7ES)
-manual record azimuth adjust and manual playback adjust(aka Naks)
-computer controlled transport system for very high head contact capability and accuracy, plus reduced head wear (aka Naks)
-speed adjust trim for slower or faster playback (pitch like control) with on-off bypass switch
-shielded sections between stages
-external isolated twin R core power transformers (aka Aiwa XK-S9000/ Excelia XK-009 and Sony TC-KA7ES)
-quartz locked direct drive with low wow and flutter
-transport safe enough to use with 120 minute length cassettes
-15hz to 27khz +-3DB at -10db level normal speed, 20hz to 27khz +-0db at -10db level 7 IPS mode
-flat frequency response from 20-20khz +1/-2db at all speeds at 0db level
-65 to 70db SNR without noise reduction
-XLR mike inputs with phanton power
-switch for mike or line level inputs via RCA connections
-choice of RCA or XLR output jacks (connected to the two optional analog output stages)
-external battery pack attachment for use on location
-internal power conditioner
-less IC circuits and more discrete circuitry
-tight tollerance high grade long lasting parts with deck expectancy of 20 years
-real time counter with tape length counter below, and switch for time ellapsed or time left

Did I miss anything? This deck would have to be on par and beat the performance and sound quality of the best decks including the Tandberg 3014A and the Nak ZX-9. Also to be released with this deck are the return of a modified Metal cassette designed to be used in this deck at high speeds, plus a modern (coating -layers less prone to wear off) version of the type 3 cassette. This deck would be for people who want reel to reel sound quality on cassettes that are still available, plus to kill by offering better then CD sound quality.

Target sales: To prosumers to convert their tape collections to digital, people who need a high end analog recording system with still available cassettes, or people who just want the best freakin' deck possible to get.

Price-$5000 or so

I'd suspect at that price point they could sell enough to merit it, especially since there are still die hard analog users out there with decks that you cannot get parts for anymore. And with the fact many burned CDs dying within a few years of being made, and that cassettes have better longevity, then it might be a good time for a return of one good deck out there.

My second option would be to produce a 1/4 inch reel to reel deck with cassette deck like features. Many reel to reel decks never used technology put into cassettes and this would be a good place to do this. A reel to reel deck with features I'd like is: 3 3/4, 7.5 and 15 IPS, 5 heads (1 erase 1/2 track, 1 1/4 track playback for 3 3/4 and 7 1/2, 1 1/4 track playback 15 IPS, 1 1/2 track playback (7 1/2 and 15 IPS only), and 1 1/2 track record (7 1/2 and 15 IPS only), Dolby B & S with optional DBX NR, 1/4 track playback, 1/2 track play and record, bias fine with calibration mode, metal tape feature to use digital reel to reel tapes on, high headroom electronics, XLR mike inputs with phantom power, 3 choices of outputs similar to above list (tube stage, solid state, digital output (PCM and DSD), and pitch control.

So what features would you add to this list?
 
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In my humble opinion, that's a bit pointless...just buy a really good R2R and some external signal processing. You can still get a brand new Otari MX-5050BIII for $5k.
 
braxus said:
Realizing I dont really need another tape deck (I already have too many),
Click to expand...

There's no such a thing called "too many decks".


I think the following impossible in cassettes:

-15hz to 27khz +-3DB at -10db level normal speed, 20hz to 27khz +-0db at -10db level 7 IPS mode
-flat frequency response from 20-20khz +1/-2db at all speeds at 0db level
Click to expand...
 
vinyldavid said:
In my humble opinion, that's a bit pointless...just buy a really good R2R and some external signal processing. You can still get a brand new Otari MX-5050BIII for $5k.
Click to expand...

Yep. Even the greatest buggy whip in the world is still just a buggy whip.
 
You're going to run a cassette tape at 7-1/2 ips? And get all of 8 minutes a side on a C60. Better make this thing auto-revere, and a dual-transport deck.

How about a machine that records half-track stereo on a VHS cassette at 3-3/4 ips? Nice wide type-II tape, and a transport that is independant of the distortions of the cassette shell. Can also have a centre-track time code, just to be over the top.

P.S., Digital reel-to-reel tape (Pro-digi, DASH) is not just ordinary 'metal' cassette tape on a big reel - it's magnetic properties are inappropriate for analogue recording.
 
VHS is a joke. Very sloppy transports and super thin tape. Not a good audio format. 7 1/2 IPS cassettes, not practical. 8 minutes play time on a C-60.

What I would love in a cassette machine would be a ReVox style transport with switchable 3 3/4 IPS added and plug in electronics cards and Tandberg's audio circuitry and heads for the best of both machines. ReVox's all direct drive transport married with Tandberg's electronics and heads. A reliable tank of a cassette deck with the best sound possible out of the medium. A nice hybrid. And while we're at it, how about a 1/2 track Stereo option for it and Dyneq added. Having Dolby B and S built in would be a nice addition.
 
Guys, I think he is talking about what could have been done with 20 years more development. Look at home much cassette developed between 1975 and 1990. I am sure there could have been a fair bit more done in the medium between 1990 and 2010.
 
It's an interesting topic to contemplate...

I can only imagine what Nakamichi engineers might have accomplished, if they had taken the kind of innovative technologies and precision engineering incorporated in the ZX-9, and continued to develop the technology for another two decades. They made a fundamentally inferior format, originally designed for dictaphone-type use, and made it into an outstanding audiophile medium. How much more could have been done? I don't know; at some point you get into diminishing returns, but certainly there was plenty of room left for further innovation, if enough brainpower were focused on the subject for long enough.

The BIG issue here is, of course, an economic one. How many people today would pay for a $5,000 cassette deck? Very, very few - almost certainly not enough to recover the cost of developing and producing such a deck.

Another obstacle is that the tapes still being made today in cassette format are not the best tapes (which are all long out of production). We are all stuck with whatever we can find of NOS or used tapes, a source that is limited, shrinking in volume and increasing in price. Some good R2R tape is still made, that might be put into cassettes, but it isn't being done today. Good cassette casings are also no longer manufactured, so that would be another thing that would need to be revived. It wouldn't be economically justifiable to re-produce these things, just for the small number of people willing to pay $5000 for a cassette deck (if that would even cover the cost of making the deck).


What might be a more interesting experiment is to see if you could DIY a "Frankendeck" that would improve on the old technologies. Very difficult to improve on the precision transport, alignment, etc... quality of Naks and other top-level decks, though. That isn't a DIY-level thing, for 99.999% of us. You might be able to increase the recording speed, as mentioned. What if you created an oversized "cassette" using trimmed-down R2R tape in larger reels, to get around the short play time that comes with increased speed? But if you are going to do that, why not just get an R2R, and benefit from the wider tape?

No, I don't see this happening, other than as interesting idle "what might have been" speculation.
 
Arkay said:
It's an interesting topic to contemplate...

I can only imagine what Nakamichi engineers might have accomplished, if they had taken the kind of innovative technologies and precision engineering incorporated in the ZX-9, and continued to develop the technology for another two decades. They made a fundamentally inferior format, originally designed for dictaphone-type use, and made it into an outstanding audiophile medium. How much more could have been done? I don't know; at some point you get into diminishing returns, but certainly there was plenty of room left for further innovation, if enough brainpower were focused on the subject for long enough.

The BIG issue here is, of course, an economic one. How many people today would pay for a $5,000 cassette deck? Very, very few - almost certainly not enough to recover the cost of developing and producing such a deck.

Another obstacle is that the tapes still being made today in cassette format are not the best tapes (which are all long out of production). We are all stuck with whatever we can find of NOS or used tapes, a source that is limited, shrinking in volume and increasing in price. Some good R2R tape is still made, that might be put into cassettes, but it isn't being done today. Good cassette casings are also no longer manufactured, so that would be another thing that would need to be revived. It wouldn't be economically justifiable to re-produce these things, just for the small number of people willing to pay $5000 for a cassette deck (if that would even cover the cost of making the deck).


What might be a more interesting experiment is to see if you could DIY a "Frankendeck" that would improve on the old technologies. Very difficult to improve on the precision transport, alignment, etc... quality of Naks and other top-level decks, though. That isn't a DIY-level thing, for 99.999% of us. You might be able to increase the recording speed, as mentioned. What if you created an oversized "cassette" using trimmed-down R2R tape in larger reels, to get around the short play time that comes with increased speed? But if you are going to do that, why not just get an R2R, and benefit from the wider tape?

No, I don't see this happening, other than as interesting idle "what might have been" speculation.
Click to expand...

Well, I am thinking that if there were a market for a new TOTL deck like this, then there would likely be a market for decent tapes too.
 
Aiwa produced just one deck that could record digital audio on a standard cassette, unlike Philips' DCC machines which, though could play a standard cassette, could only record on a DCC cassette.
The Aiwa must have used something like Atrac or Pasc.
Not a great success.

Studer produced the V8 8-track digital PCM recorder, based on a Panasonic VHS transport.
 
why not buy a used teac v-5oo that has dbx built in off ebay i got mine for $50 and i make perfect record or cd to cassette copys with it!
 
CDs dying after a few years is an urban myth. Sure, if a CD is subjected to intense light and temperature extremes, lower quality substrates will deteriorate, but on aggregate, CD's are significantly more robust than tape - all the way around. Tape requires much more delicate handling to last over the long-run, and from a capacity stand-point, was essentially dead 12 years ago. I say this from the perspective of really enjoying the cassette format, but when you step back and take a hard look at it, cassettes returning to mainstream viability is a pipe dream as the economies of scale aren't there to make it a worthy capital investment. When you stop and think about how good lossless formats can sound, especially when fed through a nice tube assisted DAC (as only one example), and you realize just how much music can be compiled on a single blu-ray disc (as another example), tape is really an outmoded format in the 21st century.

With all that said, it certainly would have been cool to see where decks (and tape) would have gone had the gravy-train kept a rollin and a paradigm shift (progress) not stepped in. I like the postulate though Brax, It would have been cool to somehow see the complete culmination of all cassette advancements amassed into one deck - but for five grand? - that's a bit of a stretch... Plus, what would the true end result gain be to push the analog cassette technology any further? There's always that nagging concept of diminishing returns. Many of the "specs" you laid out there make sense to me, many don't. Keep in mind physics is in play here so there's only so much that can be accomplished within The Theory of Constraints idiom of the compact cassette platform, and analog recording in general for that matter. Sounds like a project for old Larry back on Tapeheads; since he's got it figured out how to scrounge up old maxell spools and re-sell, touting them as "new" with that Phoenix gig, maybe he can manage to scrounge up some Sound Design or Audiovox hardware and reintroduce the most epic and awesomest cassette deck ever to the starving for something new public.

To key in on one of your wishlist items Brax, there's already an abundance of quality decks out there that have lasted 20+ years...Sony ES and Pioneer Elite rigs being just a subset of them. That said, if a new deck was to be built incorporating all the engineering prowess of many of the machines you've referenced, I think it's safe to say that a new machine would be a long lasting one. From a hobbiest stand-point, I'd much rather relish the classic or soon-to-be classic machines that are already out there though, and simply enjoy the music. Hell, I wouldn't pay 5K for a TOTL HD television, much less a cassette deck - and I'm audio hardcore.
 
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There was talk on another forum of people signing a petition for a new deck to be made. I really doubt it would ever happen, but if it did, this is the deck I'd want made.
 
I`d like to have seen what the Elcaset might have evolved into....with twice the tape width, at twice the speed of a standard cassette, combined with an effective noise reduction (dbx) process, that might have had some potential.
 
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