My friends x100 vs my 500C

[Hannes123]

Hello fellow Fisher lovers,

so my friend has a x100. He uses it with some very efficient speakers. Last night we compared and it was clear, that his x100 is dead silent on PHONO - my 500C has a muddy and noisy sound when on PHONO. The x100 however does sound very sweet, has loads of headroom on Phono and the dynamics are very good. I also wondered, why his volume pot tracks so even and smooth - mine does not. It has a chanel imbalance when tuned very low. Sadly, my volume pot had to be replaced with this 90$ one - this would likely be the reason, am i right? All in all, i got the impression that his x100 is in a much better "condition" compared to my 500C - although both has been serviced recently by the same experienced technician. I also got the impression, that the x100 does sound sweeter... is that a common thing that the smaller Fisher does sound better? I love my 500C but this got me thinking.
Hannes

 

[Tim D]

Sounds like your 500c needs some (more) work. If the volume isn't tracking, yes you need to focus on the pot first and then if still having that trouble you'll have to dig deeper. Sorry if you spent $90 on a bad pot. That would be infuriating.

In regards to the muddiness, Have you checked the tubes? What has been updated on the 500c? Is it only the phono that is muddy? Are both channels muddy or just one? What about Aux and FM?

 

[macgolf]

Love my X-100-3. Since it does everything right that I need, I haven't been tempted to try one Fishers higher powered units. What you're describing with your 500C, doesn't sound like normal behavior. Folks with more technical knowledge will be able to help troubleshoot the issues.

 

[Chrisxo55441]

it could be noisy tubes, the phono tubes are in V16 & V17 you could try different tubes there and see if it improves. i use NOS 7025's, 7025's tend to be the quietest in the 12ax7 line, not familiar with new tubes but im sure others can recommend some good ones. My 500C phono is dead quiet and very sweet sounding

 

[larryderouin]

I've found the Sovtek 12ax7LPS are the quietest of the new crop of Russian 12ax7 type tubes in Phono in my 400's and 800c's behind RCA, Sylvania, and GE old stock. EH & Tung-sol re-issues are neck and neck for 2nd place. Haven't tried the so called Mullard Russian tubes but they look like Tung-Sol's with a hefty price tag. Swap your phono tubes (V16 & V17) with your Low and High Filter amp tubes (V14 & V15), see if that makes a difference. If you have a spare pair of 12ax7's swap those in at V16 & V17. and clean the sockets/tube pins 1st.

You're comparing an integrated amp (preamp and amp only) with a receiver (TUNER, Preamp, and Amp). Apples and oranges to tell the truth. Integrated's will practically always beat out a receiver of comparable quality and wattage. Chassis size is about the same on the two. Having said that, you've got a hell of a lot more going on in the 500c underneath than the X-100. RF and IF circuits for the Tuner can interfere with Audio signal if wire routing and shielding is not correctly done, lot's more unshielded and shielded wiring and larger transformers in the 500c to put out additional EMF. Some if not all of it can be corrected by a very good tech, but usually FISHER did very well on minimizing the above faults. I'd look at the tubes 1st, dirty pins/sockets, weak, noisy, or gassy tubes. Old epoxy coated caps (dog turds) can get noisy due to intermittent connection internally at the leads (they break down and separate), or old carbon comp resistors going out of spec.

 

[Hannes123]

Thanks, Larry. Not sure if i get the "Integrated´s will practically always beat out a receiver" part... I mean if i get that correct, the X-100 could be had for 980 DM (Deutsch Mark) here in Germany ,while a
500C could be had for around 2580 DM. A VW Käfer cost 9000 DM so that was a lot of money back then. Is this a "practical" statement? I mean in this way, that the real perfomance
is overshadowed because of too many sources of error? I recently read that many Fisher collectors prefer the sound of the smaller units because they sound "more musical". Also, my very next unit
will be a X-101 so i am afraid already my 500C won´t get enough attention in the near future Will try the 12ax7 though!

 

[larryderouin]

Compare the amount of circuitry in the X-100 vs. the 500c. The X-100 being simpler (with out all the added RF circuitry) than the 500c, which on the 500c overall adds to complexity, noise background (RF leakage), etc. Granted the circuits between the inputs and the output's are similar (both Fisher's) but the X-100 being cathode bias can run the output tubes a little harder than a fixed bias receiver. And the 7189 is a whole different output tube than the 7591. Less overall power, but to me more midrange and high's. I notice that in my X-202, and my consoles that run the EL-84 / 7189 type. Different sound altogether. Less overall bass but a midrange and hi's that is smoother in the EL-84/7189 tubes.

Compare a VW bug(X-100 with 7189 tubes) with a Porche 911 with A/C, Power Windows etc(500c with 7591's). Same basic Corporation, similar layouts, etc. The bug is simple, basic transportation without frills ( No power acessories), and it'll run all day long at 100kph, with minimal maintenance. The Porsche on the other hand will do 150kph easily, but has increased maintenance costs due to system complexity. They're at best kissing cousins, but never the less they're family.

As far as the X-101 it's going to sound pretty much the same as your friends X-100. Same tubes, same basic topography except for a couple of controls. You won't get into 7591's/7868's in the integrateds until the X-100-B (7868), X101-B(7591), or X-202-B(7591). The higher you go in the hierarchy, the more complexity in the tone circuits and other bells and whistles.