My late 1960's Sony 3000 tt is working again!

[Dick Schneiders]

When I was in the US Air Force in Japan in the late 1960's, I purchased a high quality Sony audio system, including their wonderful TTS/PS 3000 belt drive turntable. Twenty years ago the motor on the 3000 quit working, and that is when I bought a new Thorens TD147, which I recently replaced with a TD125MKII. I was never able to locate a working motor for the Sony, so it has been in storage for nearly 20 years. Recently I was told of an audio store back east that had a working, but armless, TTS3000 for sale. I purchased it and spent the long holiday weekend putting my Sony 3000 back into working order.

I had the Sony mounted in a custom walnut base with a hinged walnut and glass top back in the early 1970's. There is no suspension in the base. I always loved the look of this very simple manual turntable in the large beautiful walnut base. It isn't exotic looking or high tech, but it played music as well as any turntable I had ever heard.

Anyway, I have spent several hours this morning comparing the sound from the Sony 3000 to my refurbished Thorens TD125MKII. It was not really a fair comparison to begin with. The Thorens is on 3 brass tiptoes on top of a granite isolation base. Due to space limitations, the Sony is sitting on top of an old wooden crate turned upside down on the carpeted floor. The Thorens has a thick acrylic platter and SME 3009 Series II arm rewired with Cardas wire. The Sony has the stock rubber mat and stock PUA 286 arm with the original wiring. The Thorens is using a several hundred dollar VPI tone arm cable and the Sony has the nearly 40 year old stock tone arm cable.

I was certainly expecting to hear significant differences in favor of the Thorens. I was surprised that the two tables sounded equally as good, and if there were any differences to be heard, they were in favor of the Sony! I think that the Sony has a bit smoother and less muddy bass. It also seems to have better mid-range clarity and imaging.

Now I don't know what to do. I have no room to keep both of these tables in my system, and I don't want to get rid of either of them.

I will try to include a couple of pictures of the Sony here, but I have never posted pictures before.

Dick Schneiders

 

[Lefty]

When I was in the US Air Force in Japan in the late 1960's, I purchased a high quality Sony audio system, including their wonderful TTS/PS 3000 belt drive turntable. Twenty years ago the motor on the 3000 quit working, and that is when I bought a new Thorens TD147, which I recently replaced with a TD125MKII. I was never able to locate a working motor for the Sony, so it has been in storage for nearly 20 years. Recently I was told of an audio store back east that had a working, but armless, TTS3000 for sale. I purchased it and spent the long holiday weekend putting my Sony 3000 back into working order.

I had the Sony mounted in a custom walnut base with a hinged walnut and glass top back in the early 1970's. There is no suspension in the base. I always loved the look of this very simple manual turntable in the large beautiful walnut base. It isn't exotic looking or high tech, but it played music as well as any turntable I had ever heard.

Anyway, I have spent several hours this morning comparing the sound from the Sony 3000 to my refurbished Thorens TD125MKII. It was not really a fair comparison to begin with. The Thorens is on 3 brass tiptoes on top of a granite isolation base. Due to space limitations, the Sony is sitting on top of an old wooden crate turned upside down on the carpeted floor. The Thorens has a thick acrylic platter and SME 3009 Series II arm rewired with Cardas wire. The Sony has the stock rubber mat and stock PUA 286 arm with the original wiring. The Thorens is using a several hundred dollar VPI tone arm cable and the Sony has the nearly 40 year old stock tone arm cable.

I was certainly expecting to hear significant differences in favor of the Thorens. I was surprised that the two tables sounded equally as good, and if there were any differences to be heard, they were in favor of the Sony! I think that the Sony has a bit smoother and less muddy bass. It also seems to have better mid-range clarity and imaging.

Now I don't know what to do. I have no room to keep both of these tables in my system, and I don't want to get rid of either of them.

I will try to include a couple of pictures of the Sony here, but I have never posted pictures before.

Dick Schneiders

Well the Thoren probably has a better future ahead as far as parts and service avaliblity. Too bad you can't keep both as one has a history for you and other one has had lots of upgrades.

Did your original Sony system have the 2000F preamp? I recently found one at an unbelivable price and it's pretty much in mint condition. I was so impressed that I put it in my system replacing a Kenwood basic C2 preamp. I think these early Sony TOTL components are starting to attract a lot of activity on E-bay when listed so if the TT is part of that series I would not let it go too easily or cheaply.

Lefty

 

[Dick Schneiders]

Yes, and I still have the Sony 2000 preamp, which works well. That was certainly a full-featured preamp, and I loved the two lit output level guages on the front panel. I also had a pair of Sony 3120 power amps that I used for biamping my speakers. I only have one of the power amps, now. The Sony PS3000 (or TTS3000, as it is also known as) was in the same time frame and series of Sony equipment as the preamp and amps. I also had a couple of their upper level reel-to-reel tape decks. In the late 1960's Sony was going all out trying to get into the high end. This was before they discovered that there was much more money to be made in the mid to upper mid level of audio equipment.

You are correct about parts availability for the Thorens being better. This is one reason I don't want to part with it. I can certainly keep both of these turntables, but don't see any easy way to have them both in my system at the same time.

I doubt that I could ever sell the Sony for enough to overcome the history I have with it. While it is very good sounding turntable, not many people know about it and would want it. It would also be difficult to ship, with the large size and heavy wood and glass top.

Dick Schneiders

 

[Lefty]

Yes, and I still have the Sony 2000 preamp, which works well. That was certainly a full-featured preamp, and I loved the two lit output level guages on the front panel. I also had a pair of Sony 3120 power amps that I used for biamping my speakers. I only have one of the power amps, now. The Sony PS3000 (or TTS3000, as it is also known as) was in the same time frame and series of Sony equipment as the preamp and amps. I also had a couple of their upper level reel-to-reel tape decks. In the late 1960's Sony was going all out trying to get into the high end. This was before they discovered that there was much more money to be made in the mid to upper mid level of audio equipment.

You are correct about parts availability for the Thorens being better. This is one reason I don't want to part with it. I can certainly keep both of these turntables, but don't see any easy way to have them both in my system at the same time.

I doubt that I could ever sell the Sony for enough to overcome the history I have with it. While it is very good sounding turntable, not many people know about it and would want it. It would also be difficult to ship, with the large size and heavy wood and glass top.

Dick Schneiders

Thanks for the response. After aquiring the 2000F I bit on a e-bay listing for a 3120 amp. It's in need of repair as one channel is out, and I;m waiting for some replacement output transistors. I don't really know why I bought it, only that I got it pretty cheap and maybe I have visions of utilizing that unique center channel output on the 2000F. Possibly I could use the 3120 to drive a sub. Anyway the Tuners for this series ST-5130 and ST-5000F are hot items (lots of bidders) so I will probably not attempt to build a complete Sony vintage system. I think the preamp is the key component of this series anyway.

Lefty

 

[WhiteSE]

I wouldnt sell the Sony.....Thorens are always and will always be around....That Sony TT looks great and has history and character....

 

[Dick Schneiders]

I certainly agree with you, about the preamp being the key component. I actually have two of these Sony 2000 preamps. I bought a 2nd one for parts, for little money, and never needed any of the parts. It also worked perfectly, back then, but had a few missing knobs that somebody had removed. I have not tried that one in many years, though.

I never did buy the matching tuner for these electronics. It was quite expensive, and I simply didn't listen to the radio much. I did buy an inexpensive Sony tuner, though, in the same time frame that really isn't a very good performer. I don't recall the model number, but it was a small, taller than wide, tuner with a wooden cabinet and large lit round dial on the front. It worked ok, but wasn't great.

Those late 1960's Sony pieces of equipment had a lot of neat features. The 3120 is a fairly low power amp, but the two level adjustments on the back panel were useful at times for me. I have used with a cd player connected directly into the power amp, at various times. The ability to adjust the volume level, without needing a preamp, was beneficial.

Dick Schneiders

 

[Brian]

The 3000 table was an expensive and hard to get table when in production. I remember at Cramer's a customer could not buy the table UNLESS he also bought the Sony preamp and a Sony amp, or a TOTL Sony receiver. Even a Mc purchaser could not buy it. Not a Sony policy by the company's. As for their placment in the pecking order of tables back then, it was considered the table to try to find and actually sold at or above list price at least in the Boston market. Being unsprung, the plinth and mods to make it top notch should be similar to the Garrard 301 and 401. As for which 1 to keep, the Thorens is the better known but the Sony should be the better sounding, at least it was when the TD125 (not MKII) was out. You have a definite item to get into your system.

 

[absolon]

I certainly agree with you, about the preamp being the key component. I actually have two of these Sony 2000 preamps. I bought a 2nd one for parts, for little money, and never needed any of the parts. It also worked perfectly, back then, but had a few missing knobs that somebody had removed. I have not tried that one in many years, though.

I never did buy the matching tuner for these electronics. It was quite expensive, and I simply didn't listen to the radio much. I did buy an inexpensive Sony tuner, though, in the same time frame that really isn't a very good performer. I don't recall the model number, but it was a small, taller than wide, tuner with a wooden cabinet and large lit round dial on the front. It worked ok, but wasn't great.

Those late 1960's Sony pieces of equipment had a lot of neat features. The 3120 is a fairly low power amp, but the two level adjustments on the back panel were useful at times for me. I have used with a cd player connected directly into the power amp, at various times. The ability to adjust the volume level, without needing a preamp, was beneficial.

Dick Schneiders

I envy you that table :yes:

I use the full complement of that era's Sony gear (2000F, 3200F, 5000FW, TC177SD and a TC352D) and have spent the last year searching for that precise version of the TT you are using though I would prefer the unobtainable 4000. Various derivations of the 3000 have moved through auction at prices varying from less than $100 for parts units to nearly $500 for one that went to Germany. I finally gave up when the last one I found at a dealer was going to cost over $600 to land here and acquired an old Swedish Unamco transcription table that I've fitted with a V15-III. It's a nice TT, but a poor substitute for my completion piece. It's nice to hear that someone takes great pleasure in owning one. I hope to join your fairly exclusive club one day, but I'm going to have to save my pennies and do some gear flipping to justify it. Finding that one you have will be difficult.

I think the tuner you refer to is the T-80. It is fairly common on ebay, but I haven't followed the pricing it fetches

 

[Dick Schneiders]

I envy you that table :yes:

I use the full complement of that era's Sony gear (2000F, 3200F, 5000FW, TC177SD and a TC352D) and have spent the last year searching for that precise version of the TT you are using though I would prefer the unobtainable 4000. Various derivations of the 3000 have moved through auction at prices varying from less than $100 for parts units to nearly $500 for one that went to Germany. I finally gave up when the last one I found at a dealer was going to cost over $600 to land here and acquired an old Swedish Unamco transcription table that I've fitted with a V15-III. It's a nice TT, but a poor substitute for my completion piece. It's nice to hear that someone takes great pleasure in owning one. I hope to join your fairly exclusive club one day, but I'm going to have to save my pennies and do some gear flipping to justify it. Finding that one you have will be difficult.

I think the tuner you refer to is the T-80. It is fairly common on ebay, but I haven't followed the pricing it fetches

absolon,

I have to ask why you would prefer the Sony 4000 turntable? Do you prefer direct drive tables? I have never actually seen one for sale anywhere, in any condition, so I know it is rarer, but is it actually better sounding?

I doubt that I would ever get rid of mine, especially now that it is running again. I bought it in Japan in 1968, and it travelled with me when I was transferred to Okinawa in 1969. It then went with me back to the U.S. when I got out of the military in 1970. It has moved, with me, several times in the U.S. and it will probably go to the grave with me.

The problem is that the large custom base and top, which are over 24 inches wide and 18 inches in depth, take up a lot of room. It is too large for my equipment rack, and the lid needs a lot of room in order to open it up. It might just have to stay on the floor in front of my rack, but the wooden crate underneath it looks a bit scruffy.

I have several 16" radio transcription discs with some versions of jazz songs that I don't have anywhere else. This Sony 3000 with the long arm will play them, and I haven't heard them for 20 years. It will be nice to once again listen to those old recordings.

Thanks for the information and "envy".

Dick Schneiders

 

[absolon]

I haven't listened to either the 3000 or the 4000 but am trying to assemble a complete period Sony setup. I understand the 4000 to be a more accurate pairing to the "F" series of Sony's high end line. I also like rare birds, and the 4000 really fits that bill but I would happily settle for the 3000 with the long arm. The Unamco i purchased in their stead is another very rare piece that combines the 2 piece platter system of the Thorens with the three point suspension of the AR turntables and pairs them with a very light proprietary transcription arm. Since the 2000F preamp has two phono inputs, I'll likely keep it even if I do find a Sony.

I have only run across one 4000, sounded like a very nice unit being fitted with a long SME arm, but it wasn't really for sale and if it was would likely be far out of my range. There was another on HiFiDo at a very reasonable price, but it was sold by the time I was in the market. If memory serves me correctly, there have only been three listed on HiFiDo in the last five years and I've never seen one listed for sale or auction elsewhere.

I have the same size problem with the Unamco which measures 16 x 21. In the process of rebuilding it, I will build a very similar case for it to the one you have so it can sit on top of my stereo cabinet. Though she tolerates it because of how her favourite records sound through it, my wife calls it "a big dirty thing" as it sits in it's original base and the dust cover is damaged so some appropriate camoflage is required.

 

[stereofisher]

Nice Job!!!

The Sony looks great! Nice job. Eric

 

[Dick Schneiders]

The Sony looks great! Nice job. Eric

Thanks, Eric.

Those pictures were taken a couple of days ago, before the resurrection had been completed. It was still on my work table, and had not yet been tested. I hadn't figured out how I wanted to attach the two chains to the lid, so that the lid could be opened and would stay up, if I wanted it to. If you look closely at the left and right sides of the plinth, you can see the ends of the chains that are taped to the wood to keep them from falling back into the inside of the base.

I was real happy that once it was all together, it actually played and sounded great. I would have been disappointed to have spent all this time on it and not have it sound the way I remembered it more than 20 years ago.

Dick Schneiders

 

[Dick Schneiders]

I haven't listened to either the 3000 or the 4000 but am trying to assemble a complete period Sony setup. I understand the 4000 to be a more accurate pairing to the "F" series of Sony's high end line. I also like rare birds, and the 4000 really fits that bill but I would happily settle for the 3000 with the long arm. The Unamco i purchased in their stead is another very rare piece that combines the 2 piece platter system of the Thorens with the three point suspension of the AR turntables and pairs them with a very light proprietary transcription arm. Since the 2000F preamp has two phono inputs, I'll likely keep it even if I do find a Sony.

Ok, that explains it. I read right over the fact that your Sony electronics are the later "F" series. Mine are the earlier series without the "F" designation. It was all purchased in 1968 which was before the Sony 4000 turntable was being produced.

I actually had forgotten that the Sony 2000 preamp has two phono inputs. It has been about the same 20 years since I have used it. The Adcom that I am using now only has the one, which is some of the problems I have with putting both my Thorens 125MKII and this Sony 3000 in the system at the same time. That Sony 2000 was full of unusual and useful features.

By the way, based on my paperwork that came with the Sony when I bought it, I think that all of the Sony 3000's had the longer PUA 286 Sony arm. The TTS3000 was the designation normally used for the armless and unmounted turntable. When it was combined with the short arm, that was called the PS2000 turntable, and with the longer arm, it was called the PS3000 turntable.

Good luck with your Sony turntable search,

Dick Schneiders

 

[absolon]

That Sony 2000 was full of unusual and useful features.

You're right there. I ordered the owners manual from Sony and consider it an excellent investment. I think the "F" model goes even a little further than the non-"F" in what it can do but both are very nice examples of well-thought out and capable equipment.