My Pioneer Odyssey

[drstevebrule]

Hello AK!

Happy Sunday Listening!

I'm going to use this thread as a journal.

I've always been jealous of folks that start threads at their infancy in a hobby, e.g. saltwater reef keeping, classic car restoration, etc.

With other passions (obsessions) I've been too excited to immediately get to the 'optimal' system or setup and in so doing, totally failing to enjoy or appreciate the journey.

I'll be keeping track of changes with my system as well as observations and questions along the way. I'm looking forward to taking it (a little) slower and having a handy reference for my system's history.

 

[drstevebrule]

Here's how my setup started.

Pioneer SX-1080, given to me by my dad. It's been shuffled between storage spaces for the last 20 years without having been powered up. It was dusty and has a slight bit of rust on the top metal grille

....I took the cover off and dusted and vacuumed the best I could.

Before plugging it in I played with all of the switches....A LOT. I thought in the absence of contact cleaner, I would manipulate all the controls in an effort to create some usable contacts. Plus it was late on a Friday and I was excited to see it come to life. Kind of like an Italian Tuneup for a car that you haven't driven in a while.

I turned it on and there was no fire! Great! I patiently waited and heard the most lovely CLICK of the relay energizing.

 

[rickb119]

A SX-1080 puts you pretty far ahead of where many of us started our journey.

Enjoy.

 

[drstevebrule]

A SX-1080 puts you pretty far ahead of where many of us started our journey.

Enjoy.

It's really the only reason I'm here.

You see, my wife and I are expecting our first child. We've been cleaning up our house and have made many trips to Goodwill. The 1080 almost made it to the Goodwill pile, until I had a quick perusal of the interwebs.

Neither my dad nor I had any idea that it was valuable or well regarded in any way; neither of us even owned a stereo at the time.

A lover of all fine engineering, especially vintage, I knew right then and there that I would be keeping and enjoying it.

 

[drstevebrule]

So after the discovery of value and successful power-up of the SX-1080, I did my normal thing and found the nicest local Pioneer speakers I could.

I drove 2 hours for a nice pair of HPM-100's. They're fair cosmetically but the seller reports they've been recapped with Solen caps. For anyone interested in current values I gave $400 for the pair which I thought was fair.

 

[drstevebrule]

It was as this point that the speakers and receiver got an upgraded station in life, moving from the barn to my suburban basement.

I quickly became unhappy with only FM radio, so I went to my local record store (Record Archive) in search of a used turntable to get listening ASAP. They had a Vector Research VT-155 for $65. Although it was missing its dust cover it came with an AT cartridge and new stylus.

Then the strangest thing happened. As I was leaving, another set of Pioneer speakers called to me CS-99A's. I knew nothing about their sound quality but bought them based on their beautiful looks and condition alone - $400.

Here's a picture of my setup when I got home that day, listening to the first records I've ever purchased, The Band, Queen and Steve Winwood.

 

[drstevebrule]

The VT-155 sounded great and I listened to my 5 albums 2 or three times each. It had an unfortunate squeal from the belt drive that was audible when music wasn't playing. I'm not entirely sure if this had any effect on sound quality but I didn't like it regardless. The folks at Record Archive were kind enough to take it back for store credit and I promptly bought MORE RECORDS.

I obviously needed something to spin wax, so I kept a close eye on Craigslist and Marketplace. It had to be Pioneer and period correct, so when I found a very nice condition PL-115D for $100 I messaged the seller immediately. It has what I assume is the original cartridge, a Realistic / Shure R47EB, an intact dust cover and no visible damage or defects.

PL-115D Question:
All functions work great, although the auto-return is VERY noisy. There's a very loud 'thunk / click' that is audible through the speakers when the player decides it's time to return. Then the arm casually lifts and travels back to the rest. The Vector Research turntable had an absolutely silent auto-return and I also noticed that the cartridge was 'off' while the tonearm was on the rest. Should I be expecting the same from this Pioneer?

Pictures taken on temporary audio stand #1, which has since been replaced. Also, the stacked speaker sound wasn't for me, so I'm back to side-by-side. Pictures taken while listening to Jethro Tull's Thick as a Brick (which sounds better on the CS-99A's than the HPM-100's, by the way!

 

[drstevebrule]

The stacked speaker arrangement had to go. It didn't sound terrible but it was pretty ugly...

I also did a super cheapskate 'hack' that I read about to get a cheap and semi-custom audio stack / cabinet. I bought a few "Lack" end tables from IKEA and cut the the legs to the height I wanted before assembling them. The tables are only stacked on top of each other right now, so they aren't what you would call stable. The tables are also hollow, so I'm thinking of drilling and filling them with something cheap before securing them together. We use a lot of polyurethane here at work, so I may be able to inject the tables with the stuff that gets wasted at the end of a shift. If it's for free, it's for me!

Steely Dan's Aja came in the mail today, so I know what I'm doing when I get home.....

Happy Festivus!

 

[xlbee]

How are the surrounds on the CS-99a drivers?

 

[drstevebrule]

How are the surrounds on the CS-99a drivers?

They're pretty spectacular, the best I can tell. Here's a photo of each. Why do you ask?

I'm torn between recapping them or selling them to fund another pair of HPM's or .......?

Nate

 

[xlbee]

I ask because I have read that the surrounds on the mids of CS-99a speakers can deteriorate and essentially turn to dust. As far as HPM-100s go, I owned a pair and no matter how much I tweaked them, the sound was just not for me. I highly recommend reading this article: https://www.mvaudiolabs.com/speakers/untamed-vintage-pioneer-hpm-100.
Later I owned a pair of HPM-150s which I liked the sound of much more. Ultimately I sold the HPM-150s for a pair of TZ-9s which have stayed with me.

 

[drstevebrule]

I ask because I have read that the surrounds on the mids of CS-99a speakers can deteriorate and essentially turn to dust. As far as HPM-100s go, I owned a pair and no matter how much I tweaked them, the sound was just not for me. I highly recommend reading this article: https://www.mvaudiolabs.com/speakers/untamed-vintage-pioneer-hpm-100.
Later I owned a pair of HPM-150s which I liked the sound of much more. Ultimately I sold the HPM-150s for a pair of TZ-9s which have stayed with me.

Hi xlbee, happy new year!

I did read that article and now I'm interested in the crossover modifications he did. I reached out to inquire if the author would build a set for me but I've not heard back.

The CS-99A's and my original pair of re-capped HPM-100's have gone to a new home. They were part of a trade deal for two NEAR MINT pairs of HPM-100's.

I really loved the sound of my previous HPM's but I wanted a set that was in top cosmetic condition to match my other components. When I saw two pair pop up for sale I offered on both.

Now I'm experimenting with placement for best soundstage and discrete L / R imaging. Here's where I'm at right now. Looking for suggestions and wisdom here......I'd love to hear from those also running 2 channels through 4 speakers!

EDITED to include photos of listening space to assist in speaker placement and acoustic considerations.

 

[noahBH]

Hi xlbee, happy new year!

I did read that article and now I'm interested in the crossover modifications he did. I reached out to inquire if the author would build a set for me but I've not heard back.

The CS-99A's and my original pair of re-capped HPM-100's have gone to a new home. They were part of a trade deal for two NEAR MINT pairs of HPM-100's.

I really loved the sound of my previous HPM's but I wanted a set that was in top cosmetic condition to match my other components. When I saw two pair pop up for sale I offered on both.

Now I'm experimenting with placement for best soundstage and discrete L / R imaging. Here's where I'm at right now. Looking for suggestions and wisdom here......I'd love to hear from those also running 2 channels through 4 speakers!

EDITED to include photos of listening space to assist in speaker placement and acoustic considerations.

I've spent countless hours positioning and re-positioning my HP-60s, which are the little brothers of your 100's. I've never heard 100's, but I have always assumed they probably sound similar, as the design seems to be nearly identical except for woofer size. So, keep that in mind with my advice.

I have found that they like to be a good 18-24 inches away from the back wall. Imaging also improves with lack of clutter between them. If you can get your receiver and turntable closer to the floor that will help. The big TV screen on the wall behind them isn't doing you any favours; you could try covering it with a blanket when listening to cut down on reflection. As for height, I find they sound best at about 12" - 15" off the ground, if they aren't tilted. If they are tilted up, then you can put them lower to the ground, at around 5" - 7".

I will say, I love my HPMs. To my ears they sound just right, and to my eyes they just look really fricking cool.

Welcome to the club!

 

[drstevebrule]

I've spent countless hours positioning and re-positioning my HP-60s, which are the little brothers of your 100's. I've never heard 100's, but I have always assumed they probably sound similar, as the design seems to be nearly identical except for woofer size. So, keep that in mind with my advice.

I have found that they like to be a good 18-24 inches away from the back wall. Imaging also improves with lack of clutter between them. If you can get your receiver and turntable closer to the floor that will help. The big TV screen on the wall behind them isn't doing you any favours; you could try covering it with a blanket when listening to cut down on reflection. As for height, I find they sound best at about 12" - 15" off the ground, if they aren't tilted. If they are tilted up, then you can put them lower to the ground, at around 5" - 7".

I will say, I love my HPMs. To my ears they sound just right, and to my eyes they just look really fricking cool.

Welcome to the club!

Thanks for the advice! I bought a set of stands from a very nice etsy seller. The stands will be 14" tall with no angle.

I hear you on the TV, I've heard that a few times. I'm working on a way to hang a curtain in front of it that's easily removable.

 

[drstevebrule]

Okay, there was no other way around it, the TV had to move. I was already out in of fine adjustment so I had to move the entire mount up. At least it's out of the direct reflection path of the speakers now. If I knew then what I know now I probably would have gone the projector direction.

I'll leave it for a day or two to normalize but may end up tweaking the tilt down slightly.

PS, You guys where right!

It already sounds better and I've not even listened to any "audiophile" selections yet! Just David Attenborough and he sounds like he's hiding behind the my turntable!

Before and after photos attached!

 

[drstevebrule]

Here's the newest configuration!

TV raised.​

Front wall covered in 0.4" acoustic felt. (BONUS: nice black background for home theater viewing)​

Speakers angled back 3 degrees. (Still waiting on stands).​

Still under consideration:

Recapping of HPM 100's...​

Media console or component shelf...​

 

[noahBH]

That looks great! But that 2nd pair of speakers is redundant, you should probably just sell them to me

Let us know what you find for stands. I haven't been able to find anything suitable (other than some custom made ones that would cost more than the speakers themselves) so I'm planning on building something basic out of wood.

 

[Bill S]

Looks good. Once you get the stands, try the system with just one pair of speakers. You may find that the 2nd pair is redundant and only clutters the sound vs improves it.