My recent subwoofer swap...

[RunOutGroove]

I posted earlier with a question of how to hook up this new sub that I got, a SVS SB-2000, that I was fortunate to get from a friend that was getting rid of some unused audio stuff (I can't remember the sub that he kept but it was something REALLY high end). I got the RCA Y-cords and a length of longer RCA wire to hook up the new sub... and finally got around to hooking that thing up. I have that one hooked up via the pre amp/power amp split method (don't know what else to call it) where I pull out the jumpers from the back of my Marantz 2270 receiver and put those Y cords with the longer RCA cable to the line ins on the sub. I didn't hook the thing up with the method that lets the sub cut the bass going to the speakers (at 80 htz), but I may try that later. Since my old JBL S120P II sub was hooked up via speaker wires (it supports this and the new SVS doesn't) to the "B" of the A/B speaker switch on the Marantz and the SVS connected that other way, I was a be able to make an A/B test between each of these things...

I put on several CDs, with everything from acoustic jazz, fusion to reggae and did a back and fourth between the two subs. Upon doing so, I could hear that the JBL, while maybe going just a bit lower (but not dramatically so) was really flabby sounding compared to the smaller port-less SVS (the JBL has a port in the back). Where occasionally the JBL kind of had a bloated "ahhhhh" sound to the very low bass, the SVS was TIGHT! The more I listened, the more clear it was that the SVS was the clear winner for me. Incidentally, I had both rolling off at 80 hrtz with my Jamo C 103 speakers, which are rated to go down to 45 Hz, with the volume at just a little bit shy of half up on each. I could maybe do a bit more experimentation, in terms of settings but the balance as it was sounded very good. Though I can't say that I was unhappy with the JBL, I had noticed that the bass was maybe a bit muddy on certain recordings, not distractingly so, but maybe not ideal. Hearing the A/B test though, I could hear pretty obvious differences and that the SVS is definitely a finer beast. Before, I might have asked just what benefit a higher end sub is compared to something that's kind of mid-line, like the JBL (that looks to be very well made, with plenty of power, nice options for adjustment, hookup, etc), but now I understand the advantage of a higher end unit.

Anyway, I'm very happy with the upgrade and not just for SQ either as the new SVS is also smaller and I appreciate that. Both subs needed to be put in a kind of less than ideal spot, not so much for sound but for aesthetic, practical purposes. The SVS being a 10" woofer model is probably 4/5 as large as the bigger 13" driver JBL (which really seems like a beast!), but somehow the visual effect of it is a lot less obtrusive than the JBL. Surprising how the smaller model holds its own against the larger one too, though I have to admit that the larger JBL probably does have more very low bass. Those extra few Hz though aren't nearly as important to me as the overall much tighter bass presentation on the new SVS. The SVS sounds far more "integrated" into the system too, where I feel like I'm listening to one system, rather than a set of regular speakers and a subwoofer.

Anyway, thanks for all of the advice on the hookup, though if I may be so bold, I have one more question: the new SVS sub has a knob on it for "phase," and I wonder what exactly that does?

 

[JoeESP9]

Here you go, directly from the Klipsch website.

FAQ: How do I set subwoofer phase?

A: Depending on the absolute phase of your main speakers and amplifier and the distances of the subwoofer and the main speakers from the listening position, the bass in the crossover region may be smoother if you reverse the subwoofer’s phase. Typically, though, phase is left at 0° for most applications.

While seated in your listening sweet spot, play music with bass content that is familiar to you and then have someone switch the 0/180 phase switch on the sub to 180-degrees. This will let you determine if the bass sounds louder in your seating position.

The more bass-heavy setting is where the output of the subwoofer and the main speakers are most in phase. Use whatever position (0/180) is louder at your seating location. (Note: some subwoofers may contain a “variable” phase control, which provides variable control between 0 and 180 for even more precise phase control of your subwoofer.)

However, if you do not notice any difference when changing the 0-180 setting, it only means there are no issues in your room and all is fine.

 

[RunOutGroove]

Here you go, directly from the Klipsch website.

FAQ: How do I set subwoofer phase?

A: Depending on the absolute phase of your main speakers and amplifier and the distances of the subwoofer and the main speakers from the listening position, the bass in the crossover region may be smoother if you reverse the subwoofer’s phase. Typically, though, phase is left at 0° for most applications.

While seated in your listening sweet spot, play music with bass content that is familiar to you and then have someone switch the 0/180 phase switch on the sub to 180-degrees. This will let you determine if the bass sounds louder in your seating position.

The more bass-heavy setting is where the output of the subwoofer and the main speakers are most in phase. Use whatever position (0/180) is louder at your seating location. (Note: some subwoofers may contain a “variable” phase control, which provides variable control between 0 and 180 for even more precise phase control of your subwoofer.)

However, if you do not notice any difference when changing the 0-180 setting, it only means there are no issues in your room and all is fine.

Thanks, I still don't really even understand what exactly thing does or how it works but at some point, I'll have to do a bit of experimenting and see if I notice how it changes the sound and where I like it set...

 

[JoeESP9]

That experimenting thing is how many of us learned the "ropes".

While many subwoofers have a switch to select phase the ones that are fully variable are the most desirable.

Once you hear what the difference correct phasing between speakers and a sub sounds like, you'll understand exactly what it does. To understand how it does it requires some knowledge of electronics and basic acoustics. The principle is the same regardless of different brands.

FWIW: I rely on measurements to set up my subwoofers.

The link below may be more helpful.
Setting Subwoofer Phase the Easy Way | Sound & Vision (soundandvision.com)

 

[Legrace]

I didn't hook the thing up with the method that lets the sub cut the bass going to the speakers (at 80 htz), but I may try that later.

Commonly referred to as high pass crossover. Preferred connection method when available and implementable (ie many amps do not support separating pre and amp sections) I would never incorporate a sub in my 2 channel analog setup that didn't include such a feature.

 

[Grenadeslio]

I posted earlier with a question of how to hook up this new sub that I got, a SVS SB-2000, that I was fortunate to get from a friend that was getting rid of some unused audio stuff (I can't remember the sub that he kept but it was something REALLY high end). I got the RCA Y-cords and a length of longer RCA wire to hook up the new sub... and finally got around to hooking that thing up. I have that one hooked up via the pre amp/power amp split method (don't know what else to call it) where I pull out the jumpers from the back of my Marantz 2270 receiver and put those Y cords with the longer RCA cable to the line ins on the sub. I didn't hook the thing up with the method that lets the sub cut the bass going to the speakers (at 80 htz), but I may try that later. Since my old JBL S120P II sub was hooked up via speaker wires (it supports this and the new SVS doesn't) to the "B" of the A/B speaker switch on the Marantz and the SVS connected that other way, I was a be able to make an A/B test between each of these things...

I put on several CDs, with everything from acoustic jazz, fusion to reggae and did a back and fourth between the two subs. Upon doing so, I could hear that the JBL, while maybe going just a bit lower (but not dramatically so) was really flabby sounding compared to the smaller port-less SVS (the JBL has a port in the back). Where occasionally the JBL kind of had a bloated "ahhhhh" sound to the very low bass, the SVS was TIGHT! The more I listened, the more clear it was that the SVS was the clear winner for me. Incidentally, I had both rolling off at 80 hrtz with my Jamo C 103 speakers, which are rated to go down to 45 Hz, with the volume at just a little bit shy of half up on each. I could maybe do a bit more experimentation, in terms of settings but the balance as it was sounded very good. Though I can't say that I was unhappy with the JBL, I had noticed that the bass was maybe a bit muddy on certain recordings, not distractingly so, but maybe not ideal. Hearing the A/B test though, I could hear pretty obvious differences and that the SVS is definitely a finer beast. Before, I might have asked just what benefit a higher end sub is compared to something that's kind of mid-line, like the JBL (that looks to be very well made, with plenty of power, nice options for adjustment, hookup, etc), but now I understand the advantage of a higher end unit.

Anyway, I'm very happy with the upgrade and not just for SQ either as the new SVS is also smaller and I appreciate that. Both subs needed to be put in a kind of less than ideal spot, not so much for sound but for aesthetic, practical purposes. The SVS being a 10" woofer model is probably 4/5 as large as the bigger 13" driver JBL (which really seems like a beast!), but somehow the visual effect of it is a lot less obtrusive than the JBL. Surprising how the smaller model holds its own against the larger one too, though I have to admit that the larger JBL probably does have more very low bass. Those extra few Hz though aren't nearly as important to me as the overall much tighter bass presentation on the new SVS. The SVS sounds far more "integrated" into the system too, where I feel like I'm listening to one system, rather than a set of regular speakers and a subwoofer.

Anyway, thanks for all of the advice on the hookup, though if I may be so bold, I have one more question: the new SVS sub has a knob on it for "phase," and I wonder what exactly that does?

ok, so first the phase control. It's useful in integrating the mains with the sub by essentially "moving" the sub closer or farther from your listening position without actually moving it. This way the bass notes from the mains and sub reach your ears at the same time, and why a variable control is soooooooo much better than just a 180 degree switch.

now the high pass filter. Some higher end subs include this, I've used the feature with my Infinitys but prefer to run the mains full range and let the sub just pick up where they leave off. And here's the thing, my sub actually has a selectable high pass point and I still prefer to run them full range. Your mileage my vary here so some experimentation may be required.

It did let my mains play louder without running full bass through them, but I prefer the SQ without the additional circuitry in the path and they play plenty loud enough without.

Edit: I should also add, nice speakers, did you get them in black, white, or real wood veneer, and during the great Amazon sale?

And the Jamo C-103's become real giant killers when using twin subs as stands.

 

[RunOutGroove]

ok, so first the phase control. It's useful in integrating the mains with the sub by essentially "moving" the sub closer or farther from your listening position without actually moving it. This way the bass notes from the mains and sub reach your ears at the same time, and why a variable control is soooooooo much better than just a 180 degree switch.

now the high pass filter. Some higher end subs include this, I've used the feature with my Infinitys but prefer to run the mains full range and let the sub just pick up where they leave off. And here's the thing, my sub actually has a selectable high pass point and I still prefer to run them full range. Your mileage my vary here so some experimentation may be required.

It did let my mains play louder without running full bass through them, but I prefer the SQ without the additional circuitry in the path and they play plenty loud enough without.

Edit: I should also add, nice speakers, did you get them in black, white, or real wood veneer, and during the great Amazon sale?

And the Jamo C-103's become real giant killers when using twin subs as stands.
View attachment 2184267

Thanks, that was actually a great explanation of what this phase control thing does. I have it set at zero now and it sounds great but I'll mess with it a bit and maybe it'll even sound better. I have my Jamo speakers running at full range too and the whole setup sounds great... so I'm not so inclined to change it, but perhaps I'll experiment later with the whole high pas filtering thing. I do have an extra RCA cord of the right length to be able to do that. I think that I might be more inclined to mess with that if the sub that I have were to have a variable control for that.... but who knows, the fixed 80 hz cutoff might be just the thing. I didn't really think of the fact that using such a thing would allow greater loudness. Not that my system can't play loud as it is, but now I'm curious about just how loud I might be able to crank it up without it sounding thin.

I got the speakers, the walnut veneer ones(beautiful!) through a Craigslist ad something like a year and a half or so ago. I paid just $350 for them. More recently, I actually bought a second pair (also with the veneer version) that I won on ebay and paid just $320 including shipping. I thought that I'd use these other ones as extension speakers in an extra room, but I realized that they were kind of large for that and that the smaller speakers that I was already using there, a pair of Quad 12L II speakers was more than adequate for the size of the room and the volume that I was listening to them at there. I ended up selling that second pair through my local ads and made a bit of money on them.

No doubt that the Jamos would sound even better with not just one, but a pair of subs, but I don't want to rearrange my room to be able to fit such an arrangement (it would be a tight fit, I think) and this single new SVS sub I have sounds so good that I really have no complaints. No matter what you have, there's always something that would be an improvement, but I kind of feel that for me that there's a kind of tipping point where what I have might be good enough to where I'm not really interested in upgrading. I think that I've reached that with my speakers, with the Jamo/SVS combination. That SVS sub really improved things a lot, with the bass being fat, but also incredibly tight (maybe more of a "musical" type thing with this sub, rather than a really huge sound, better for home theatre) and a really seamless sound, with the Jamos and SVS sounding like a single integrated unit. I read some reviews on this sub and it doesn't seem like for the size (I don't want anything much larger) that buying something more expensive gets you all that much better sound, only incremental gains...

 

[RunOutGroove]

Also: I realize that I made some errors with my original post. I said that the SVS has a 10" driver and it's actually a 12", but just in a really compact box. The JBL, I realize that I had said was a 13", which was just a typo and that it's a 12" as well, though in a much bigger box with a port...

 

[Grenadeslio]

Thanks, that was actually a great explanation of what this phase control thing does. I have it set at zero now and it sounds great but I'll mess with it a bit and maybe it'll even sound better. I have my Jamo speakers running at full range too and the whole setup sounds great... so I'm not so inclined to change it, but perhaps I'll experiment later with the whole high pas filtering thing. I do have an extra RCA cord of the right length to be able to do that. I think that I might be more inclined to mess with that if the sub that I have were to have a variable control for that.... but who knows, the fixed 80 hz cutoff might be just the thing. I didn't really think of the fact that using such a thing would allow greater loudness. Not that my system can't play loud as it is, but now I'm curious about just how loud I might be able to crank it up without it sounding thin.

I got the speakers, the walnut veneer ones(beautiful!) through a Craigslist ad something like a year and a half or so ago. I paid just $350 for them. More recently, I actually bought a second pair (also with the veneer version) that I won on ebay and paid just $320 including shipping. I thought that I'd use these other ones as extension speakers in an extra room, but I realized that they were kind of large for that and that the smaller speakers that I was already using there, a pair of Quad 12L II speakers was more than adequate for the size of the room and the volume that I was listening to them at there. I ended up selling that second pair through my local ads and made a bit of money on them.

No doubt that the Jamos would sound even better with not just one, but a pair of subs, but I don't want to rearrange my room to be able to fit such an arrangement (it would be a tight fit, I think) and this single new SVS sub I have sounds so good that I really have no complaints. No matter what you have, there's always something that would be an improvement, but I kind of feel that for me that there's a kind of tipping point where what I have might be good enough to where I'm not really interested in upgrading. I think that I've reached that with my speakers, with the Jamo/SVS combination. That SVS sub really improved things a lot, with the bass being fat, but also incredibly tight (maybe more of a "musical" type thing with this sub, rather than a really huge sound, better for home theatre) and a really seamless sound, with the Jamos and SVS sounding like a single integrated unit. I read some reviews on this sub and it doesn't seem like for the size (I don't want anything much larger) that buying something more expensive gets you all that much better sound, only incremental gains...

The Jamos handle a ton of power, I don't think limiting their bass will gain more output, I think the sub will run out of steam first lol. That's more for systems with smaller mains that need relief from reproducing bass in my opinion for what that's worth.

And that's awesome on the Jamos, as you can see mine are black. I picked up five pair for $169, sold four to buyers in Australia for a bit of profit. Later picked up a C-10 center for $160, WOW, what a difference having the matched center made, and its HUGE.

Had a Canton center and it was nice with Canton Plus S as surrounds, really never thought the center matching the mains that important until I did. Using Definitive Technology Studio Monitor 350's as rear surrounds now, big improvement there also.

 

[RunOutGroove]

The Jamos handle a ton of power, I don't think limiting their bass will gain more output, I think the sub will run out of steam first lol. That's more for systems with smaller mains that need relief from reproducing bass in my opinion for what that's worth.

And that's awesome on the Jamos, as you can see mine are black. I picked up five pair for $169, sold four to buyers in Australia for a bit of profit. Later picked up a C-10 center for $160, WOW, what a difference having the matched center made, and its HUGE.

Had a Canton center and it was nice with Canton Plus S as surrounds, really never thought the center matching the mains that important until I did. Using Definitive Technology Studio Monitor 350's as rear surrounds now, big improvement there also.

View attachment 2184727

I don't see too many folks using a center channel, for a 2 channel type setup, but I can imagine that it would work. With the space that I have to work with for my audio setup, I have the speakers pretty far apart and I imagine that this is less than ideal. A center channel might actually help to fix this, but I don't really have room for it, nor am I willing to rearrange my space to fit one. It's a whole other conversation, I realize but for me the perfection of the audio setup isn't really the only consideration. I like a space that works for me aesthetically and partially (something where I'm not tripping over stuff, have to move one thing to reach another, etc). I'm OK with the compromise though because things sound pretty good, even if admittedly not quite as good as they could be.

I have to wonder though if introducing a third speaker like that might be a problem for an amp that isn't design for all that big a load... like my old Marantz. One might need to do that sort of a thing with an amp which is cable of running bitter at a lower ohm load....

 

[Grenadeslio]

I don't see too many folks using a center channel, for a 2 channel type setup, but I can imagine that it would work. With the space that I have to work with for my audio setup, I have the speakers pretty far apart and I imagine that this is less than ideal. A center channel might actually help to fix this, but I don't really have room for it, nor am I willing to rearrange my space to fit one. It's a whole other conversation, I realize but for me the perfection of the audio setup isn't really the only consideration. I like a space that works for me aesthetically and partially (something where I'm not tripping over stuff, have to move one thing to reach another, etc). I'm OK with the compromise the compromises though because things sound pretty good, even if admittedly not quite as good as they could be.

I have to wonder though if introducing a third speaker like that might be a problem for an amp that isn't design for all that big a load... like my old Marantz. One might need to do that sort of a thing with an amp which is cable of running bitter at a lower ohm load....

wasn't suggesting you get one, if you look at my picture you'll see the Jamos are part of a multi-channel setup with the Infinity Modulus System as the dedicated 2-channel setup. They share the same preamp so just the push of a few buttons let's me use either for the other.

I've found the multi-channel setup with a center channel speaker works better with the mains farther apart than is optimal for a 2-channel setup in the same room, hence the two systems. I could just move the mains but I find this more fun lol.

This is the flexibility of having separates with a stand alone surround processor just making it all the easier.