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NAD vs Rotel

chillard1 said:
This is quite compelling...no one has been able to discern the difference in sound of amps???? Doesn't that go against, well, just about everything we've been talking about this whole time? I want more evidence that this is true...a lot of money is being wasted on a myth if your assertions are fact.
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Yep - head over to AVS science forum - look up a guy named Arnyk there. Talk to him or just read his posts. You should see what's he's running to. You have to remember though - he's talking about amps performing in their parameters - not clipping, and not something wrong.

You ever try it? I did - my Hk AVR 520 with the main two channels driven by a PA2000 bridged to 100 watts per side - vs my NAD 375 - sound IDENTICAL to me. Oh, you have to level match it too.

Try it. Or better yet, talk to him about it. First think he'll ask you is YOU prove it - with graphs that clearly show in the same room, with the same speakers, and the same db level, the differences in the sound which can be measured - he has them - a machine can't hear the difference - so how can we?
 
chillard1 said:
This is quite compelling...no one has been able to discern the difference in sound of amps???? Doesn't that go against, well, just about everything we've been talking about this whole time? I want more evidence that this is true...a lot of money is being wasted on a myth if your assertions are fact.
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Definitely something wrong with someones ears or speakers if they can't tell the differences between amps.
 
jimdabomb said:
Definitely something wrong with someones ears or speakers if they can't tell the differences between amps.
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In what way? You sound like an audiophile. If you were designing your own amp, and were selling it to me (or anyone). How would you market it? What kind of flaws would you tout it has - would you build it so:

A) it exaggerated the highs - so the amp sounds 'screetchy'

B) It exaggeraged the mid bass - so it sounds 'warm'

C) it exaggerated the bass - so it sounds 'boomy'

Or, would you market it as 'transparent' - it doesn't get in the way of the signal - it just passes it on to the speakers like a properly designed amp is supposed to do.

That's what pretty much all the amplifier manufacturers state their amps do. Yet they won't say anything different when someone says 'this amp sounds better' because otherwise why would you spend 10 grand on amp A when spending 5 grand on amp B garners the same results (sound?). That would be crazy wouldn't it?

Oh, talking Solid State here, I can definitely hear the difference between my SS amps and my tube amp, but my tube amp is flawed, as most are. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you like the exaggerated or smoothed off frequencies where they occur.
 
I'd settle on a price for each, pay for them both on the understanding one is coming back after you decide which one is right for you, at your place, on your speakers.
The dealer would be happy with that- he gets 1 guaranteed sale, has the money in case you do a runner, and there is a possibility you might keep both.
I used to do that for customers all the time.


chillard1 said:
Bought a pair of RTI A7s. Running them with a Sansui 8900zbd...sounds decent at best. Looking to step into the 21st century with an integrated amp in the $1500 range. I want a built in DAC for ALACs and I will listen to some cds as well. I was pretty much set on the NAD C375DAC until I went in to the local audio retailer. He carried the Rotel RA-1570 in addition to the NAD. He was pretty adamant about the Rotel smoking the NAD. I listened to them both running a pair of B&W bookshelf speakers and sure enough the Rotel sounded better with those speakers in the showroom. Trying to figure out if this will hold true with my Polks in my relatively small very live (two windows, wood floor, sheetrock) room at home. Anyone listened to both? What is your opinion. I know I should make my own choice but I just wanted to hear your thoughts if you have any.
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This forum is NOT for telling people they can't hear what they say they are hearing. Aside from being against the rules, that certainly is not what AK is about.
 
Bigerik said:
This forum is NOT for telling people they can't hear what they say they are hearing. Aside from being against the rules, that certainly is not what AK is about.
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So we don't have to look up some guy named ardvik on some home theater forum to tells us what we're not hearing? Thank you for that. :thmbsp:
 
KptKrunch said:
In what way? You sound like an audiophile. If you were designing your own amp, and were selling it to me (or anyone). How would you market it? What kind of flaws would you tout it has - would you build it so:

A) it exaggerated the highs - so the amp sounds 'screetchy'

B) It exaggeraged the mid bass - so it sounds 'warm'

C) it exaggerated the bass - so it sounds 'boomy'

Or, would you market it as 'transparent' - it doesn't get in the way of the signal - it just passes it on to the speakers like a properly designed amp is supposed to do.

That's what pretty much all the amplifier manufacturers state their amps do. Yet they won't say anything different when someone says 'this amp sounds better' because otherwise why would you spend 10 grand on amp A when spending 5 grand on amp B garners the same results (sound?). That would be crazy wouldn't it?

Oh, talking Solid State here, I can definitely hear the difference between my SS amps and my tube amp, but my tube amp is flawed, as most are. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you like the exaggerated or smoothed off frequencies where they occur.
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I have owned and heard many different solid state amps throughout my life and they have all had different sound signatures. It's all about finding one that suits your taste. So far, my favorite amp is the first and only tube amp I've ever owned, a DIY 6B4G SET that I built. Yes, all an amp really does it provide gain to a signal but if you can't hear the different sound signatures, then you should have your hearing checked. If there were no differences, why would different amps even be offered? We could all just buy the same amp and be happy with it, or not.. but we wouldn't really have a choice, would we? All I know, is that the sound of my little SET is FAR more enjoyable than the sound of say, a Sony home theater receiver from Walmart.
 
Bigerik said:
This forum is NOT for telling people they can't hear what they say they are hearing. Aside from being against the rules, that certainly is not what AK is about.
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Whew, I am so glad you cleared that up :D. I was driving my Prius next to a Ferrari the other day, and boy, my Prius was sounding really throaty for a minute...all V8's sound the same:nono:
 
So to bring this back to the topic at hand, unfortunately the NAD C375 aint working out. I listened to it almost all day yesterday. In more than a couple songs, such as reggae and blues rock where the bass guitar is very apparent, at high volumes (however nothing ridiculous) the woofers would make a very unpleasant sound...like they were bottoming out. Now the RTI A7s I'm running are rated to take 300 continuous watts. I think the NAD (and the Rotel would be too) is slightly underpowered. Is it possible that it doesn't have enough current to control the woofers on this speaker? This hunch seemed backed up when I set up my old tsi400s and they SANG...clear as could be. The amp could manhandle them unlike the RTI A7s. So now I'm looking at taking it back and going in the direction of a smaller integrated amp with a nice dac (built in or external) that I could take to my dorm and could run into a new or used b&k or parasound power amp with around 200 watts and more current at home to run the A7s...Does this sound like a good idea? Also can anyone recommend a nice integrated amp with modest power and a nice dac built in or external (with coaxial and pc usb) that I could use effectively as a pre-amp (hopefully under a grand)?
 
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If you are using the tone controls you might want to cut them and use the pure direct mode. Sounds like the bass is so exaggerated your speakers can't handle it. I've heard that amp driving a pair of Sonus Faber speakers to insane levels without any of what you are experiencing.
Looking at the speaker specs, they have two 7" "subwoofers". Maybe the speakers are just that bassy?
 
See if they let you take another amp home to try.
Also, you might want to look at the Parasound new classic preamp and amp. You could get both for the same price as the NAD
 
Maybe you could take the rotel home. It sounded better at the shop. I know reviews are subjective, but the NAD has some negative's out there.
 
fredgarvin said:
Maybe you could take the rotel home. It sounded better at the shop. I know reviews are subjective, but the NAD has some negative's out there.
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Seems like a good plan to me. Best way to tell is always lots of hours spent listening, preferably in your own home and own system.
 
frankbooth said:
If you are using the tone controls you might want to cut them and use the pure direct mode. Sounds like the bass is so exaggerated your speakers can't handle it. I've heard that amp driving a pair of Sonus Faber speakers to insane levels without any of what you are experiencing.
Looking at the speaker specs, they have two 7" "subwoofers". Maybe the speakers are just that bassy?
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I thought the same thing...It sounds like "loudness" is on all the time. However there is no loudness button and I have had tone direct on the whole time. Something has to be wrong...seems like the amp should be able to handle the speakers and it seems like the speakers should be able to handle the amp...I'm completely puzzled
 
chillard1 said:
I thought the same thing...It sounds like "loudness" is on all the time. However there is no loudness button and I have had tone direct on the whole time. Something has to be wrong...seems like the amp should be able to handle the speakers and it seems like the speakers should be able to handle the amp...I'm completely puzzled
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Check your speaker connections making sure all are in phase.....does this happen with any source input?
 
chillard1 said:
So to bring this back to the topic at hand, unfortunately the NAD C375 aint working out. I listened to it almost all day yesterday. In more than a couple songs, such as reggae and blues rock where the bass guitar is very apparent, at high volumes (however nothing ridiculous) the woofers would make a very unpleasant sound...like they were bottoming out. Now the RTI A7s I'm running are rated to take 300 continuous watts. I think the NAD (and the Rotel would be too) is slightly underpowered. Is it possible that it doesn't have enough current to control the woofers on this speaker? This hunch seemed backed up when I set up my old tsi400s and they SANG...clear as could be. The amp could manhandle them unlike the RTI A7s. So now I'm looking at taking it back and going in the direction of a smaller integrated amp with a nice dac (built in or external) that I could take to my dorm and could run into a new or used b&k or parasound power amp with around 200 watts and more current at home to run the A7s...Does this sound like a good idea? Also can anyone recommend a nice integrated amp with modest power and a nice dac built in or external (with coaxial and pc usb) that I could use effectively as a pre-amp (hopefully under a grand)?
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Have you considered the dampening factor? What gauge is your cable?
 
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