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Nagaoka MP200

Happy birthday and congrats futureman!

Please post back how you like the MP-200 on that tonearm. (I assume you own the TP-16 Mk1 version). I've got that relatively heavy tonearm also on a 125 Mk2 and am looking at buying a new cartridge.

May I ask who you purchased your MP-200 from?
 
Got this thing dialed in, and it sounds great right out of the gate. Music seems 'cleaner' (not sure how else to describe it. Perhaps I'm picking up on improved tracking?), and the bass is a little tighter than the 110. Can't wait until this thing breaks in!
 
I have a Nagoaka MP11 on an older basic pioneer TT I bought to try out vinyl and can't believe how good this $100 cartridge sounds. It tracks like a champ, and makes nearly all my records sound good as it keeps surface noise down, Yet retains very good detail. It looks to me like their MP200 is one of the better value cartridges for those wanting to move up a step or two in SQ, While keeping the cost of a replacement stylus reasonable.

In a direct comparison with the my CD player/DAC combo (which cost many times what I paid for my TT/cartridge/Preamp), The CD's in some respects (not necessarily quieter) are much better. I'll bet the MP200 on say a Music Hall MMF 5.1 TT would get a whole lot closer to my CD set-up than my 35 year old entry level Pioneer TT and MP11 cartridge. Even a better TT with the MP11 might make a noticeable difference. Needless to say, The biggest enjoyment I get out of LP's isn't better sound, It the whole LP experience. If I'm not in the mode I listen to CD's.
 
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penkosey said:
How well does the entry level MP11 handle the inner grooves?

.
Click to expand...

The MP11 has been replaced with the MP110 as Art pointed out in the previous post.

My Pioneer Rondo 2000 (please don't laugh) doesn't even have anti-skate. In a effort to check for inner grove distortion, I backed off the VTF to 1/2 the 2.0 grams it normally tracks at and listened intently for any sign of IGD or imbalance in sound. Not a trace. The darn thing still tracks like champ at the inner most song and sounds great. I believe the MP110 has a conical stylus which might make it less susceptible to IGD.

I do believe most entry level cartridge's properly installed should not exhibit any trace of IGD if the TT is working correctly. The Shure M95ED I had many years ago on a Realistic TT that looked suspiciously like this Pioneer also worked well on the inner grove at 1/2 its normal VTF
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futureman said:
Got this thing dialed in, and it sounds great right out of the gate. Music seems 'cleaner' (not sure how else to describe it. Perhaps I'm picking up on improved tracking?), and the bass is a little tighter than the 110. Can't wait until this thing breaks in!
Click to expand...

You need about 20 hours before it comes into full bloom......Cleaner is a good way to describe it. The low end gets nice and tight, not as full as the MP-110, very smooth sounding cartridge.
One of the better, if not best, MM carts for excellent vinyl playback.
 
charles 1973 said:
I have a Nagoaka MP11 on an older basic pioneer TT I bought to try out vinyl and can't believe how good this $100 cartridge sounds. It tracks like a champ, and makes nearly all my records sound good as it keeps surface noise down, Yet retains very good detail. It looks to me like their MP200 is one of the better value cartridges for those wanting to move up a step or two in SQ, While keeping the cost of a replacement stylus reasonable.

In a direct comparison with the my CD player/DAC combo (which cost many times what I paid for my TT/cartridge/Preamp), The CD's in some respects (not necessarily quieter) are much better. I'll bet the MP200 on say a Music Hall MMF 5.1 TT would get a whole lot closer to my CD set-up than my 35 year old entry level Pioneer TT and MP11 cartridge. Even a better TT with the MP11 might make a noticeable difference. Needless to say, The biggest enjoyment I get out of LP's isn't better sound, It the whole LP experience. If I'm not in the mode I listen to CD's.
Click to expand...

The MP-200 is an amazing deal if you want to stick to MM carts as it gets you way up the sound chain without spending say $500+

Since I upped my phonostage I jumped on the MC bandwagon, although I would be perfectly happy with a MP-200 but at some point would probably end up with a MP-500, line contact stylus and a bit heavier cart.

And quiet carts they are for sure, on some of my pristine vinyl, CD did not compare in total SQ.
 
Hi. Thank you in advance for reading. I'm reliving this thread because I want to hear the latest opinions on the MP-200, but please allow me to put you in context first:

I've been a truly happy MP-110 user for almost two years but I've been bitten by the upgrade bug, and I want to stick to Nagaoka since I really like the sonic character of the MP-110. What I like the most is the fact that it doesn't bury the middle frequencies as many hi-fi cartridges seem to do.

But now I want to take the most advantage of my modest setup. The thing is, I can't think of Nagaoka's top of the line (MP-300 and MP-500) because of my turntable's tonearm mid mass (14 grams). Those two cartridges are heavier and have a much higher compliance than the MP-110, and that combo isn't supposed to work on my turntable.

The highest Nagaoka model I can think of for my turntable is the MP-200, so I have both the MP-150 and MP-200 as upgrade options. Of course, the MP-200 has higher specifications, but it doesn't necessarily means that it's a better-sounding cartridge (and I don't lose sight of the fact that "better" and "worse" are very subjective terms). Still, I'd like to hear current impressions on the MP-150 and MP-200 compared to the MP-110. My musical tastes are extremely wide (rock, pop, jazz, classical, salsa...), although I'm not going to deny that I'm a rocker at heart.

You can hear the sound I get from my MP-110 by visiting my YouTube channel. All the videos there, with the exception of the few ones spinning shellac records, have been recorded with the MP-110. And again, I really like that sound! But maybe there's some room for improvement within the limitations of my modest setup, and that's what I want to find out. Thank you in advance for your input! Here's the direct link to the videos' list in my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/NothingLikeVinyl/videos
 
Hi,
I think the MP-500 should work on your arm. I've never tried it, but the 100Hz compliance should be equivalent to 16.5 cu @ 10Hz ?

With hardware weighing 1g, your resonance should be around 8.5Hz. Even if it went a tad below 8Hz, it's not the end of the world. If your physical set-up is relatively immune to footfalls, and physical excitation, you should be fine.

I can't comment about resultant SQ and like I said, I've never tried this cart, but the rules of cu and arm mass are often broken on the low side of resonance, with good results.
neo
 
neobop said:
Hi,
I think the MP-500 should work on your arm. I've never tried it, but the 100Hz compliance should be equivalent to 16.5 cu @ 10Hz ?

With hardware weighing 1g, your resonance should be around 8.5Hz. Even if it went a tad below 8Hz, it's not the end of the world. If your physical set-up is relatively immune to footfalls, and physical excitation, you should be fine.

I can't comment about resultant SQ and like I said, I've never tried this cart, but the rules of cu and arm mass are often broken on the low side of resonance, with good results.
neo
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your reply! I used the effective tonearm mass spreadsheet created by user Luckydog to calculate my tonearm's mass with both my current cartridge/headshell combo and the MP-500 one, which is heavier. That extra weight, plus the fact that the maximum recommended VTF for the MP-500 is slightly lower, increases my tonearm mass considerably.

With that measurement, I used the cantilever resonance frequency spreadsheet that can be found at The Analog Dept. and the resulting resonant frequency is 7.42 Hz, which is far as I understand is problematic. Just in case you feel like making some calculations on your own, here's some relevant data about my turntable's tonearm:

Effective length: 230 mm.

My turntable has the particularity of having interchangeable tonearms (S-shaped and straight/underhung), so I was able to remove the S-shaped tonearm tube (I never use the straight one) and weigh it alone: 14 grams.

Tonearm weight without cartridge/headshell and counterweight (but attached to the base): 5 grams.

Counterweight: 76 grams.

Distance from pivot to counterweight center at the usual location (with Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge @ 2 grams VTF): 54 mm.

Total weight of my current cartridge + headshell assembly (Nagaoka MP-110 with Numark headshell): 16 grams.

MP-110 cartridge weight according to manufacturer's specs: 6.5 grams.

MP-110 dynamic complliance @100 Hz: 6 cu.

The Nagaoka MP-500H (MP-500 with headshell) has the following specifications:

Cartridge weight: 8 grams.

Headshell weight: 13.5 grams.

Dynamic compliance @ 100 Hz: 8.5 cu.

Maximum recommended VTF: 1.8 grams.

Thank you one more time! :)
 
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I've just found that, if I use a 9.5 gr. headshell with the MP-500 (instead of the 13.5 gr. Nagaoka headshell) and replace the 76 gr. counterweight with a 100 gr. one, the tonearm mass decreases and the resonant frequency is raised to 8.48 Hz. A question arises then: Which are the lightest headshell and heaviest counterweight available for a Technics-style turntable? (good quality, of course)
 
The stock Technics SL-1200MK2 headshell is readily available and is about 7.5 grams. For counterweight, you can go as heavy as you wish (e.g. by adding lead tape) as long as you're able to achieve the desired VTF. Go too heavy and you won't be able to get the VTF high enough.
 
Hail Vinyl! said:
Is it possible for a headshell to be this light? (see description)

http://www.needledoctor.com/Technics-Headshell?sc=2&category=432

If that's true, it would be perfect.
Click to expand...

I think that's the same Technics headshell without wires.

You didn't mention what the arm is, it has replaceable arm tubes with a standard SME type headshell? Remove the counterweight and headshell with the straight arm attached and weigh the arm. What does it weigh?

I suspect you'll be fine with a headshell of moderate weight. Even if the resonance is 7.4Hz you should also be okay if your table isn't susceptible to footfalls and has a stable support.
neo
 
neobop said:
I think that's the same Technics headshell without wires.

You didn't mention what the arm is, it has replaceable arm tubes with a standard SME type headshell? Remove the counterweight and headshell with the straight arm attached and weigh the arm. What does it weigh?

I suspect you'll be fine with a headshell of moderate weight. Even if the resonance is 7.4Hz you should also be okay if your table isn't susceptible to footfalls and has a stable support.
neo
Click to expand...

Again, I never use the straight tonearm, but I'll weigh it when I get home. One thing I can tell you: I weighed both arm tubes (unattached) and, strangely enough, the straight (shorter) tonearm is heavier: 15 grams (14 grams for the S-shaped tonearm, as stated above).

This is the arm tube for my turntable:

http://www.instrumentalparts.com/numark-s-shaped-tone-arm-for-ttx.html
 
Hello HailVinyl.....I have seen your YT posts and I think your best option is to go for the MP-200 rather than 150. The MP-200 has a boron cantilever where the MP-150 is hardened material like aluminum...I find the boron better.

Like I posted, from the MP-110 to MP-200 is a good jump in SQ, I believe you will be very impressed.

Now the MP-500 is top of the line with the line contact stylus, so on less than pristine vinyl you might dig out more tics, pops and jumps...but also you will dig out more detail. This is what I am finding with my Audio Technica AT OC9ML/II MC with the micro-line stylus.
Everything I have read about the MP-500 is more than positive.....although to save some money you will hear a good jump in quality with the MP-200.

Enjoy!
 
Hail Vinyl! said:
Again, I never use the straight tonearm, but I'll weigh it when I get home. One thing I can tell you: I weighed both arm tubes (unattached) and, strangely enough, the straight (shorter) tonearm is heavier: 15 grams (14 grams for the S-shaped tonearm, as stated above).

This is the arm tube for my turntable:

http://www.instrumentalparts.com/numark-s-shaped-tone-arm-for-ttx.html
Click to expand...

Well, that explains it. I thought you might have been overestimating arm mass. The Technics headshell is one of the lightest available, so that should help. If you like the MP-110 maybe the MP-200 or 300 would be a good move.
Cu is 7.2 for both of those.

The AT-95 is 6.5cu @ 100Hz and with an upgraded stylus sounds pretty good. Also, all the Clearaudio MMs are 15cu @ 10Hz. You can use the AT95 aftermarket styli and the wood top seems to help.
neo
 
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