Need advice on listening to SACDs on a budget

[dblconcerto]

Hello, I'm getting more into classical music and have been interested in listening to recordings and remasterings on SACDs. I don't have a speaker system and instead would like to use IEMs, which I use for the rest of my music listening. I should say that I am a beginner to hi-fi equipment in general (the extent of my experience is using IEMs for a year and an Apple dongle as a "DAC") so please bear with me if my questions seem uninformed.

As the title suggests I would like to do this as cheaply as possible (preferably keeping the cost of each component under $100-200), especially since SACDs can be somewhat expensive. I'm rather confused about the alternatives for high-end SACD players due to all the technicalities with ports, file conversions, etc. Since all the dedicated SACD players seem to be at least $500 those are not an option for me.

From what I've seen it looks like there are a few ways to go about this, but I'm not sure which one would make the most sense for me. The first is connecting a Blu-ray player to a receiver via HDMI. The second would be to find a player with an analog output - these seem harder to find. Lastly, I saw this video where someone used an electronic box to convert HDMI to I2S, but I'm not sure how that would work with cheaper equipment. Also, I'm aware that many players have a coaxial digital out, but I've read conflicting information online as to whether or not these work for SACDs. There is very likely something I'm missing, but this is the extent of what I could gather from my research given my limited knowledge on most of these things.

Also, I don't own a dedicated DAC or amp, so I would be factoring these into the total cost.

Any advice on which route to go and recommended equipment would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading and have a nice day!

 

[robert_kc]

Welcome to AK!

The vintage Oppo DV-980H has analog audio outputs and plays SACDs.

There are countless classical SACDs available.

 

[dblconcerto]

Thank you! This looks good.

 

[dblconcerto]

Welcome to AK!

The vintage Oppo DV-980H has analog audio outputs and plays SACDs.

There are countless classical SACDs available.

I would be using the internal DAC in this case, correct? Also, would I want to use the analog stereo audio or the analog 5.1 channel audio?

Lastly, do you have any recommendations for an amp that would work well for this system?

 

[robert_kc]

Most SACDs are hybrid SACDs, and have an SACD layer and a CD layer.

The SACD layer usually has a stereo audio track, and a 5.1 audio track. (Of course this depends on the original recording and mastering.)

In order to play the SACD layer, you would use the disc player’s internal DAC – i.e., the disc player’s analog audio outputs. (If you use an external DAC and the DAC is connected via Toslink or coax, you will be limited to the CD layer of the hybrid SACD disc.)

I don't know anything about IEMs. The Oppo DV-980H has a variable audio output (i.e., volume control on remote). I’m not sure if the Oppo DV-980H would satisfactorily drive IEMs. It wouldn’t hurt to try.

Some of the later Oppo universal players have a built-in headphone amp and jack, but they are much more expensive. (Presumably this is designed for wired headphones. I’m afraid I’m not knowledgeable about headphones vs. IEMs.) The Oppo UDP-205 plays Ultra HD Blu-ray, Blu-ray, SACD, DVD, and CD. The earlier BDP-105 plays everything except Ultra HD Blu-ray. (BTW, there are many classical music Blu-rays. FWIW, Blu-ray is my favorite format.)

If you decide at some point to use loudspeakers, you could start with stereo, and evolve, e.g., to 3.0, 3.1, 4.1, or 5.1. Candidly, in order to achieve “concert hall” level sound quality, a 5.1 system using loudspeakers would be way beyond your budget.

Sony made some “universal players” with built-in stereo-only DACs, e.g., Sony UBP-X1100ES, or the older UBP-X1000ES.

OTHO, if you are using an amp (e.g., AVR) or DAC with an HDMI input, then consider the Sony UBP-X800M2 universal player.

Good luck!

P.S. If you want to read more, I suggest that you google:

sacd site:audiokarma.org​

 

[robert_kc]

Because I have no experience with headphones or IEMs, I became curious. FWIW, I found the following video to be informative:

As I said earlier, if you use an external DAC that is connected via Toslink or coax, you will be limited to the CD layer of a hybrid SACD disc. In order to play the SACD layer, you need to use the player’s analog audio output, or headphone jack, or HDMI interface to an AVR or HDMI DAC.

To play SACDs with IEMs via the simplest configuration, you might want to google something like:

SACD player with built in headphone amp​

Apparently Marantz offered various SACD players with a headphone jack over the years. You might be able to buy an older model for a reasonable price - I’m not certain. (The currently available Marantz Marantz SACD 30n costs $3k.) As I said earlier, the discontinued Oppo UDP-205 and BDP-105 universal players have headphone jacks, but they’re probably not in your budget.

If you can’t find an SACD player with built-in headphone amp, you can get an SACD player with analog audio out and use a headphone amp with analog inputs. (My understanding is that depending on your IEMs (e.g., impedance rating) the line level output of an SACD player may or may not have enough “oomph” to drive headphones without an amp. You might consider buying an Oppo DV-980H and a $3 RCA/headphone-jack adaptor cable. If that doesn’t satisfactorily drive your headphones, then buy a headphone amp with analog inputs.)

As I said earlier, another option is to get a Sony UBP-X800M2 “HDMI-only universal player”, which is available new for $228 from Crutchfield, and connect it via HDMI to an AVR with a headphone jack. (For example, there are HDMI-equipped stereo receivers with a headphone jack such as the MARANTZ NR1200, which is available remanufactured for $399: https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...OzMLX4clZ_t1dUz_qCaeTQE3jtU90#!specifications.) I have no experience with this configuration, but I don’t know why the MARANTZ NR1200 wouldn’t successfully drive most headphones or IEMs. The Sony UBP-X800M2 would enable you to play Ultra HD Blu-ray and Blu-ray discs in addition to DVD, DVD-Audio, SACD, CD, and downloaded hi-res audio files. (FWIW/IMO, Blu-ray is fabulous for classical music, opera, and ballet.) The MARANTZ NR1200 features AM/FM, phono input, and streaming audio (e.g., Spotify). It seems to me that this would be an extremely versatile hi-fi system, if it fits your budget.

I hope this helps.

 

[KeithD]

Sony DVP-NS900V has a headphone jack with a volume control. It is well regarded by many here as an SACD and CD player. Good used ones seem to sell in the $150 range with power cord and remote. You'll need the remote and TV to initially set it up for the kind of output you want. After that the remote will be handy to access a number of features, but not absolutely necessary.

 

[parman]

I was looking at used DVD players on FB marketplace and started noticing DVD blue ray players saying they play SACD. Do SACD work with all blue ray players?

 

[soundboy]

If you are using a SACD player via its analog outputs and listening to it using IEMs/headphones, then get yourself a headphone amp. You can get good headphone amps without spending a ton of money....

Music Hall - HA11.1 Headphone Amplifier

The world's largest online retailer of high-end audio, audiophile music, and accessories. We specialize in vinyl records and turntables.

www.musicdirect.com

iFi - ZEN Air CAN Headphone Amplifier

The world's largest online retailer of high-end audio, audiophile music, and accessories. We specialize in vinyl records and turntables.

www.musicdirect.com

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Made in USA

www.schiit.com

I began my SACD adventure with a pair of Grado SR60 headphones ($69.00 and I still have them) plugged into the headphone output of a Technics home theater receiver. My SACD player was a Sony SCD-CE595 5 disc CD/SACD changer (MSRP $250). You don't need to have expensive equipment to enjoy SACDs.

Btw, more than 50% of the estimated 17,000 SACD releases worldwide is of classical music.

 

[soundboy]

I was looking at used DVD players on FB marketplace and started noticing DVD blue ray players saying they play SACD. Do SACD work with all blue ray players?

Yes, as long as they have a SACD logo. A Blu-ray player that can play SACD also open up the possibility of play Blu-ray Audio disc. Blu-ray Audio discs are didicated to audio only and have recently start to gain traction with new releases from Prince, Duran Duran, etc.

Sony UBP-700 and UDP-800M2 are often mentioned nowadays for SACD playback. However, these are SACD transports only (no internal DAC) and need to transmit the SACD's DSD bitstream, via HDMI, to a home theater receiver that can decode DSD or an external DAC that accepts HDMI (very rare and not cheap).

 

[dblconcerto]

Most SACDs are hybrid SACDs, and have an SACD layer and a CD layer.

The SACD layer usually has a stereo audio track, and a 5.1 audio track. (Of course this depends on the original recording and mastering.)

In order to play the SACD layer, you would use the disc player’s internal DAC – i.e., the disc player’s analog audio outputs. (If you use an external DAC and the DAC is connected via Toslink or coax, you will be limited to the CD layer of the hybrid SACD disc.)

I don't know anything about IEMs. The Oppo DV-980H has a variable audio output (i.e., volume control on remote). I’m not sure if the Oppo DV-980H would satisfactorily drive IEMs. It wouldn’t hurt to try.

Some of the later Oppo universal players have a built-in headphone amp and jack, but they are much more expensive. (Presumably this is designed for wired headphones. I’m afraid I’m not knowledgeable about headphones vs. IEMs.) The Oppo UDP-205 plays Ultra HD Blu-ray, Blu-ray, SACD, DVD, and CD. The earlier BDP-105 plays everything except Ultra HD Blu-ray. (BTW, there are many classical music Blu-rays. FWIW, Blu-ray is my favorite format.)

If you decide at some point to use loudspeakers, you could start with stereo, and evolve, e.g., to 3.0, 3.1, 4.1, or 5.1. Candidly, in order to achieve “concert hall” level sound quality, a 5.1 system using loudspeakers would be way beyond your budget.

Sony made some “universal players” with built-in stereo-only DACs, e.g., Sony UBP-X1100ES, or the older UBP-X1000ES.

OTHO, if you are using an amp (e.g., AVR) or DAC with an HDMI input, then consider the Sony UBP-X800M2 universal player.

Good luck!

P.S. If you want to read more, I suggest that you google:

sacd site:audiokarma.org​

Thank you for the info! The IEMs should work more or less the same as headphones with the system. They need less power to drive them, but I assume an amp would be required since there is no headphone jack on the player you recommended (and since an external DAC wouldn't do anything without an HDMI connection, and those DACs seem to be more expensive). So it looks like connecting an amp via RCA and connecting the IEMs to the amp would allow me to avoid an AVR.

You might consider buying an Oppo DV-980H and a $3 RCA/headphone jack adaptor cable.

I didn't realize the RCA/headphone-jack adaptor cable was even a thing, I will try that out if the amp doesn't seem necessary.

As I said earlier, another option is to get a Sony UBP-X800M2 “HDMI-only universal player”, which is available new for $228 from Crutchfield, and connect it via HDMI to an AVR with a headphone jack. (For example, there are HDMI-equipped stereo receivers with a headphone jack such as the MARANTZ NR1200, which is available remanufactured for $399: https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...OzMLX4clZ_t1dUz_qCaeTQE3jtU90#!specifications.)

Before I posted this I did find a UBP-X800M2 on my local FB marketplace for $75, which seemed like a good option if I went the HDMI route. The Marantz is a bit pricey for me right now, are there any less expensive alternatives? Besides versatility, would there be any advantages of this setup over the alternative? What about AQ-wise? I do use Spotify for a lot of my music but I don't know enough about streamers to know if one would be beneficial AQ-wise over streaming it from my phone or laptop.

I had no idea about Blu-rays as a classical music format, I will be sure to look into those!

 

[dblconcerto]

Sony DVP-NS900V has a headphone jack with a volume control. It is well regarded by many here as an SACD and CD player. Good used ones seem to sell in the $150 range with power cord and remote. You'll need the remote and TV to initially set it up for the kind of output you want. After that the remote will be handy to access a number of features, but not absolutely necessary.

This looks like another good option. Would I have to have it connected to a TV or could I use my laptop?

 

[dblconcerto]

If you are using a SACD player via its analog outputs and listening to it using IEMs/headphones, then get yourself a headphone amp. You can get good headphone amps without spending a ton of money....

Music Hall - HA11.1 Headphone Amplifier

The world's largest online retailer of high-end audio, audiophile music, and accessories. We specialize in vinyl records and turntables.

www.musicdirect.com

iFi - ZEN Air CAN Headphone Amplifier

The world's largest online retailer of high-end audio, audiophile music, and accessories. We specialize in vinyl records and turntables.

www.musicdirect.com

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Made in USA

www.schiit.com

I began my SACD adventure with a pair of Grado SR60 headphones ($69.00 and I still have them) plugged into the headphone output of a Technics home theater receiver. My SACD player was a Sony SCD-CE595 5 disc CD/SACD changer (MSRP $250). You don't need to have expensive equipment to enjoy SACDs.

Btw, more than 50% of the estimated 17,000 SACD releases worldwide is of classical music.

Not sure if you have had experience with these specific models but is there a particular one you would recommend? I know the Magni+ is a very popular economical option.

 

[KeithD]

This looks like another good option. Would I have to have it connected to a TV or could I use my laptop?

You really only need the TV for the initial setup. If you are only going to listen to 2 channel SACDs/CDs through the headphone out jack, you probably won't need to do any setup. The main purpose of going through the audio setup is in configuring the 5.1 channel output where you can select which speakers (channels) you have connected, size of speaker, etc. So, for example, if you don't have a subwoofer, you can turn that channel off through the setup process.

If your laptop can take a video in signal and display it on your screen, then sure you could use a laptop. But again, from what I understand you want to do, I don't think you'll need a screen at all.

Be aware that the DVP-NS900V plays DVD, SACD, and CD, not Blueray if that is something you are interested in.

 

[soundboy]

Not sure if you have had experience with these specific models but is there a particular one you would recommend? I know the Magni+ is a very popular economical option.

I have the ifi ZEN air CAN and the original Schitt Magni....both are very good headphone amps.

 

[robert_kc]

<snippet>

I had no idea about Blu-rays as a classical music format, I will be sure to look into those!

FWIW, some of my thoughts on classical Blu-ray recordings are in this post: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...s…-what-are-the-options.1030516/post-16422132

 

[Sam08861]

Highly recommend the Onkyo DV-SP1000

Reviews: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/professional-reviews-of-the-onkyo-dv-sp1000.488569/

Was several thousand dollars new, Wolfson DACs, one of the few that does full rez 5.1 and also does DVD-A. Compared favorably in a similar league with Esoteric, etc costing $10k+

Superb build quality, and readily available under $200 because it’s a sleeper

Replacement lasers also available

Also has HDMI

Pictures of my unit here for build quality

Regressing from streaming to burning DVD-As / CDs

Picked up one of those universal SACD players and wouldn't you know it I like the sound more than my DAC and even Redbook CD player. Plays Redbook CDs a bit better than my old multibit Luxman with a tiny bit more detail, larger soundstage, tighter bass and quieter noise floor. Bid difference...

audiokarma.org

 

[KeithD]

Highly recommend the Onkyo DV-SP1000

Reviews: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/professional-reviews-of-the-onkyo-dv-sp1000.488569/

Was several thousand dollars new, Wolfson DACs, one of the few that does full rez 5.1 and also does DVD-A. Compared favorably in a similar league with Esoteric, etc costing $10k+

Superb build quality, and readily available under $200 because it’s a sleeper

Replacement lasers also available

Also has HDMI

Pictures of my unit here for build quality

Regressing from streaming to burning DVD-As / CDs

Picked up one of those universal SACD players and wouldn't you know it I like the sound more than my DAC and even Redbook CD player. Plays Redbook CDs a bit better than my old multibit Luxman with a tiny bit more detail, larger soundstage, tighter bass and quieter noise floor. Bid difference...

audiokarma.org

Interesting player. Are these prone to failure? Of the three active and one sold e-bay listings (U.S.), three are listed as not reading disks and one says "untested", which means not working in my book. I see you had to replace the pickup on the one you found in the thread you referenced.

 

[Sgt Shultz]

This looks like another good option. Would I have to have it connected to a TV or could I use my laptop?

I have two of these decks, you don't need to connect it to a TV at all unless using it's DVD capabilities to watch videos, it has no HDMI out so won't work with most new TV's anyway

I also have other upper tier SACD capable Sony decks, these were all including the 900V originally $1000 or more when new, I paid no more than $80 for each of mine

Sony DVP NS900V, mine are both black


Sony DVP NS999ES, mine is silver, looks great with my Kenny silver stack bedroom system


Sony DVP CX777ES, also silver, some claim these chew up discs, mine was making grinding noises upon arrival, ordered new belts $12. Easy enough to replace in it's cavernous interior, trouble free for 7yrs now, I can see its disc loading sequence being an issue if the belts are slipping though. All of the other decks are also 7yrs now trouble free, they just keep on going like you would expect from Sony.


All of these decks sound superb, even the carousel can be used without a TV connected but I suggest using the remote that comes with either of the other decks instead. They include an LCD display that makes using the decks so much easier.

The carousel remote is on the left, all are interchangeable and will operate all decks.

 

[Sam08861]

Interesting player. Are these prone to failure? Of the three active and one sold e-bay listings (U.S.), three are listed as not reading disks and one says "untested", which means not working in my book. I see you had to replace the pickup on the one you found in the thread you referenced.

The laser for the SACD / CD portion (pickup) gets weak after about 10 years of heavy use. I purchased 2 extra I found for $30 each to buy me 30 years of play. They can also be adjusted to extend their lifespan a few years after they get weak.

I bought one listed as ‘no read’ with high confidence the pickup would fix the issue and it did.

It is a bit more complex to get to the pickup on this unit, so either you will have to be comfortable with DIY or pay a tech to install.

What you are seeing on eBay with the no read is exactly the known point of failure that is fixable. No guarantees, but high probability of getting an amazing value. I’ve not seen any other point of failure reported.

i suspect the sellers who bought these new for $2500+ new aren’t the DIY types and unaware of the inexpensive fix, or have opted to buy a new high end replacement. I’ve never seen one for sale listed as working, which tells me people hang on to these until they die.