Need help with recone job--pressed woofer cones vs unpressed?

[DiGiTaL4164]

Hello--I am in the process of getting a couple of 12 woofers reconed. The woofers are the original speakers from a set of Cerwin Vega RE-30 speakers that I purchased in 1996. I recently picked up a new Crown XLI1500 power amp. The speakers were used on that amp without issue for about 3 months. They were driven moderately hard--problem is they both had somewhat worn out foam surrounds. I eventually bought a new set of surrounds, but did not get them installed before one of the Vegas blew i,e, torn cone down by the dust cap, and scratchy sounding voice coil. I have not done a recone before, and did not want to spend $200. CAD 0n recone kits, just to bugger it up, and have to start over. I have very low vision, and decided it might be a bit daunting for me. So, I opted to send them out for a pro repair. I sent them to Jon at 'Brew City Audio' who comes across as a genuinely nice guy, and is a long time Cerwin Vega enthusiast. I am thinking some people on here just might be familiar with 'Brew City Audio'.
There is one aspect of the job I am a bit uncertain re parts selection. The recone kit he sells uses 'pressed' cones (paper) and is described as follows: "These cones are pressed rather than pulp, so they are thinner but more dense, and retain the same mass..." Basically, I would like to retain the same sound as the original woofer configuration, although of course any improvements would be welcome. So, I googled ;pressed woofer cones, and found this "

"Pressed woofer cones can produce more distortion at high volumes, while unpressed cones are stiffer and more sensitive: " It also said that pressed cones are more prone to 'breakup". I asked Jon about this, and he felt that the pressed cones were a good choice, but said that he could use regular 'non-pressed' cones if I want. So, I am wondering would going with the pressed cones be a bad choice? Because the repair shop has been repairing Cerwin Vegas for many years, and offers the pressed cones by default, I thought there might be a good reason, but am not sure which way to go for best results. I do like to listen at loud volumes, and am concerned about the statements seen on Google about pressed cones producing more distortion at loud listening levels. The Crown amp is a powerful beast, and I am concerned of any higher likelihood of causing distortion with pressed cones. A little bit re specs:
Cerwin Vega RE30 3 way speakers:
Power handling--250W RMS Peak unknown
Resistance--4 ohms
Sesitivity 97dB
Crown XLI 1500 2 channel pro power amp:
power: 450W/channel into 4/ohms--330W/channel into 8 ohms

I am using a Soundcraft 12FX mixer as a pre-amp--sounds good to my ears. I like the CV RE30s quite a lot, and have had hundreds if not thousands of hours of enjoyable listening since purchased in 1996. Spending the money on a pro repair, I would like to retain the sound I am familiar with, if not improve. With all new parts I am thinking the sound should improve if I make the right call re the parts kit.. Only one speaker was blown, but I am getting both reconed to keep everything compatible, and the second one was looking pretty tired anyways. I did call one other Cerwin Vega repair centre who recommended the non pressed paper cones. Is there anything I am missing here? Which would be the better choice in this case? I am assuming there are different levels of quality re paper cones, and am not sure what the repair shop will be using. I would assume something decent, as the owner is a big CV enthusiast, and seems to take a real passion in the work he does. In the pics it is obvious which speaker is blown--the other has a bad surround, and the cone has a few abrasions. But I figured I might as well get them both done while I'm at it, and will be good to go for many years to come. Thanks for any help in sorting this out.

 

[Beobloke]

Basically, I would like to retain the same sound as the original woofer configuration, although of course any improvements would be welcome.

These two statements are at odds with each other - you either want to retain the original balance of the speaker, or improve it. You can't do both!

Once you've decided which is more important, then you can make your cone choice. Personally, I'd stick with originality every time.

 

[bowtie427ss]

In my limited experience it seems that the engineers used open molded cones in woofer designs that were aimed at bottom octave extension, and pressed cones in woofer designs aimed at faithful lower midrange extension. Some classic examples of this can be seen between woofers like the JBL 2241/2245, and 2225/2235. The 2235 and 2245 used open molded cones while the 2225 and 2241 used pressed cones.

 

[DiGiTaL4164]

These two statements are at odds with each other - you either want to retain the original balance of the speaker, or improve it. You can't do both!

Once you've decided which is more important, then you can make your cone choice. Personally, I'd stick with originality every time.

Thanks Beobloke--What I mean is that if I had two sets of RE30 speakers, one brand new, and the other my nearly 30 year old pair, I suspect that the new speakers would sound better. Not having 30 years of hard use on them, everything would likely perform better. So, I am guessing that after repair the ones I sent off will sound better than they did before one of them was blown. Because the entire woofer has been rebuilt with all new parts. But, that is assuming that the best parts for these particular speakers have been chosen for the repair i.e the best cone selection.

 

[GordonW]

Unless you're comfortable with possibly tweaking the crossovers to work with the different woofer cones- I would tend to go back with what was in there originally.

They lasted for 28 years. I don't think durability is really a huge issue...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Cerwin Junki]

So, with Cerwin Vegas, as far as recone kits go, unless you find a 35 year old kit on ebay, NOTHING available is original. Everything out there, is aftermarket, and had been for decades. Sometimes the job is tediously grinding out the old coil to retain the original cone, especially with the rare blue or greenish cones. But if the cone is damaged, you're stuck with aftermarket, so the question becomes which non-original kits will work best.
In my journey into Cerwins, I've found that Cerwin Vega made an indescribable number of design changes and part substitutions when they were making speakers. One of their most famous models, the D9, had so many variations it's crazy. Three different woofer variations (all the same part number) six different midranges (all the same part number) three different crossover designs, etc. In addition, Heppner, the company that made woofers for Cerwin, did the same thing. Some woofers had MANY variations. Different coil sizes, different ohms, different motors, different everything. All the same part number. So, I get a lot of "I need a recone kit for this" questions, and it very often necessarily leads to a lot of questions, since part numbers are almost irrelevant.
With the dizzying array of variations, different parts used in woofers, different parts used in speakers, it's impossible to make all the variations. So, for decades, it's been somewhat of a "one size fits all" thing.
So for the RE30 woofer, those were originally made with at least two different cones, two different foam styles, and two different size spiders. And that one is an easy one.
There are three major companies that have had recone kits for those. Speaker Exchange and Simply Speaker (both around for decades) and Brew City (about 5 years). Disclaimer, I own Brew City.
So, before I started Brew City (making parts strictly for Cerwin Vega, minus one jbl tweeter gasket) I used the other guys' kits for decades. So I am familiar with their parts. Some are good, some could use improvement, and often the "one size fits all" thing is taken a little too far. When I started developing parts, I set out to do it better. I had no idea there were so many variations on the woofers, till I started tearing down hundreds of them, and seeing what was originally in them. As opposed to simply "going by the book", which is often wrong. In fact many Cerwin woofers that were "supposed to be" 8 ohm, and were even stamped 8 ohm, were actually 4 ohm. So for 30+ years, everyone who's reconed them, got the wrong dang coils. Cerwin also used DLP wound coils in several models, and when other companies ran out, they just sent to plain two layer coil. It fit, it played, but it was wrong. Plus, Cerwin used Aluminum bobbins in all their woofers. All aftermarket are Kapton. Aluminum is stronger and dissipates heat better. And most people that restore Cerwins aren't using them for background music. They're running bridged Crown amps and hammering the living hell out of them. So sturdiness is important since people routinely double and triple the watts these things are rated for (and they take it) Most woofers are crossed pretty low, but some run pretty high, so extension and voicing is important. I took all of that into account, when developing parts.
I always offer any options available for a recone. I have slightly stiffer spiders if you're going to push 500 watts daily, or softer spiders if you run a 20 watt tube amp. And I'm always happy to recone with the other guys' parts if anyone chooses. I have a customer who wants kapton coils in everything, so he gets kapton. After probably nearly 1000 recones, I have a fair idea of what will work and how it will perform.
Cerwin Vega speakers get a bad rap sometimes. The "party speaker" thing. But they are incredibly capable speakers. If you like music loud sometimes, find a pair of Vegas and throw 400 clean watts per channel at them. You might be surprised!