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Negotiableterms's Marantz 2600

Now, taking into account that EW's charges for his work are about as reasonable as you will find, I am still glad I am not paying the bill for this one! :)
I'm happy to pay Glenn's bills, they're always far less than the value received.

Glenn, will you eventually replace all the PS caps and everything else like in the SX-1980? Heh... after the amazing sound improvement in the 1980, you know my philosophy: upgrade it all with TOTL. :yes:
 
The fan is nearly silent when in low-speed mode. In high-speed, it's a screamer. Fan is fine...it's just moving a lot of air when high-speed kicks in, and you can't do that silently.

David, we'll have to talk about the 'total restoration' angle. There are problems with going that route, one of them being the two large main power supply caps that Marantz decided to use (looks like two caps, but in reality are four caps - two caps in one housing). I'm going to do what I can, but some of the boards are just not meant to be fooled with, due to the construction of the thing. Call me if you like.
 
Got the resistors in, and installed. So the preamp is recapped, and a few new resistors tucked in place. Put the whole thing back together, and cleaned and reinstalled the front panel and knobs.

So I decided to listen to it for a bit, and noticed two things...the tuner gang gear wheel thingamajig has been screwed-up by some clown and the tuner dial is hanging up when spinning up and down the dial...AND the scope has a serious problem, in that the beam will NOT cross to the left of the center of the display on the horizontal axis (I thought it looked funny)...:stupid:

The gear drive for the tuner gang had to be disassembled and re-assembled correctly. Should have been pretty straightforward, but the manual does not show how it is assembled (of course not, it's a Marantz manual...but in fairness the assembly is not ever supposed to come apart, and Marantz simply bought the gang assembly from a third-party like most other manufacturers did back then), and I spent a fair bit of time this morning figuring it out. Eventually I won, and the tuner dial operates slick as snot. :)

The scope thing had me worried...I wanted to finish up this morning, and I'm tired of placing orders trying to get this thing done. What's more, I feared that a ridiculous amount of disassembly was going to be necessary to remove the CRT drive board. In the end, the board came right out and I was able to wrangle it out from under the CRT with only a little trouble. As far as the problem, I found a bad film cap, and two burnt resistors. Once replaced and re-installed, the scope display looks great, and I have deflection just like I should.

So I 'calibrated' the scope display, and spent some time fooling around with tuning stations. Whatever criticisms I have of the 2600 (and I have a lot of them), it has a nice tuner for sure...

Basically, I'm done. I was unable to recap the phono amp, as I could not figure out how to get the board out without an insane amount of disassembly, and the tuner works so well that it really should not be farked with. About 80% of the receiver is sporting new caps, and the rest are nigh-on inaccessible. I'd liken getting to them as pulling the engine and transmission out of a car to change a sparkplug that you already know is working. I'm talking many hours work (and the possibility of screwing numerous things up) in order to get to half a dozen caps. I really hate the way Marantz put this thing together.

So, a few minutes ago, I ran full-power tests on the reciever into 8 ohms. At 300W into 8 ohms, I measured 0.01% THD+N. Not too shabby.

As far as the clipping point, I'll let ya'all guess. Cookie to the closest, and I'll divulge the answer sometime tonight. :)
 
I was going to comment on Marantz manuals, but I just found a real error in a Yamaha manual. Had a CR-2040 on the bench with a strange problem, protection relay kicked in as fast as I could push the power button. Saw a 100 mike 25V cap in the schematic that I figured was the guilty party. But I could not find it on the parts layout diagrams, nowhere in sight. I finally spotted this cap tucked between the two big filter caps and under the bracket holding them. Got a light on it and sure enough 100/25. Popped it out and put in a nice Nippon Chemicon - that was it. Damn near drove me to drink. So even my good old Yammie manuals are not without faults.

345 wpc
 
EW,

My hat's off to you, sir! I've been inside enough 2500s to acutely feel your pain. I fact, anyone who can disassemble and successfully reassamble one of these monsters (with or without the lousy service manual) deserves a medal. Congrats on yet another amazing feat of restoration!

:ntwrthy:
 
merrylander said:
Rob is the closest...into 8 ohms, the 2600 clips at 348WPC (0.5% THD+N), or about the same wattage as a Pioneer Spec 2. Here's a healthy cookie for Rob.

healthy_cookie_recipe.jpg


David, I got your PM, but I'll speak about the replacement of the large-can power supply caps here:

/begin rant

One of the things that really bugs me is not being able to replace the two power supply caps. As I mentioned before, each cap is really two caps in one...each 63mm x 116mm housing contains two 7200µf 105V caps (which means the 300WPC Marantz 2600 contains even less storage than the 160WPC Kenwood KR-9600, which has four 10,000µf caps). Nowadays, replacement caps are available in 100V ratings, and then jump to either 160V, or 200V (usually 200V when you're talking large-can electrolytics). Any 160V or 200V electrolytic large enough to act as a power supply cap for this receiver will be HUGE, and has zero chance to fit in the given space. But...the actual power supply voltage is a tad under 100V, so a 100V cap could likely be used, but will offer no real 'safety-zone' should the 120V mains voltage be a little on the high side. Digikey has a Panasonic 35mm x 80mm 10,000µf 100V snap-in style cap that would likely do the job, if you could find a way to mount them, as you would need four of them to replace the stock two caps. The holes for the stock 63mm caps is not sufficient for four 35mm caps...and if that isn't enough of a PITA, you can't even get to the electrical connections on the stock caps. Why?

Marantz mounts the transformer, bridge rectifiers, and power supply caps on a large steel chassis sub-assembly piece, and bolts this to the bottom of the main chassis plate before wiring the whole thing up. The only access to the electrical side of the caps is through some small 'peek' holes in the bottom of the main chassis plate. There's enough room there to poke some probes in to measure the voltage on the caps, and that's it. To change those caps (assuming you could call up Marantz and order a pair of new ones, which you can't) would mean disconnecting (desoldering) the primary side of the transformer, disconnecting the power supply wires from the amp section and finding a way to snake them back through the wiring maze to disentangle them from the rest of the unit, and desoldering another 1/2 dozen wires that connect to the AC side of the rectifiers to provide power for God knows what (I have not elected to trace these wires down to see what they are doing, as I saw no reason to take this thought experiment any further). Only when all these wires are freed up can you unbolt the transformer/cap sub-assembly and lift it out of the receiver.

Once that is done, you have to find a way to fit four 35mm caps and their associated mounting clamps into a space barely big enough to accommodate the two stock 63mm caps. The Digikey 10,000µf 100V 35mm x 80mm caps are shorter, so I suppose it is possible to fabricate yet another sub-assembly to properly mount four 35mm brackets onto since you have a little vertical space to play with, provided that horizontal space could be found to do so (and there's no guarantee of that), and the stock mounting plate for the 63mm stock caps would have to be opened up...by cutting a big hole with a jigsaw in this sub-assembly to accommodate the new cap bracket.

Point here is that changing them out is a stupidly difficult job, made much worse by the choice of caps by Marantz and the method of construction of the receiver in general. I like the way the receiver sounds, but a big :thumbsdn: to the way Marantz put this whole package together...not just because of these two caps. I've got dozens of serious criticisms about the way this is designed and built, and don't really feel like expounding upon them here and now.

There was a time not all that long ago when, if you had asked me, what would be the ONE vintage receiver I'd like to own if money were no object, and I'd have said 'the Marantz 2600'. Working on this one has cured me of that. It is a beautiful piece, to be sure...probably THE prettiest receiver ever made, and sounds wonderful as well, but for the technician that beauty ends once the top cover comes off and you find yourself staring at the clusterfuck on the inside. 10lbs of chit in a 5lb bag, and 6lbs of it is inaccessible. If you want/need a vintage 300WPC receiver, go look at the Pioneer SX-1980, or save your lunch money for a Sansui G-33000 (did I really just recommend that someone buy a Sansui??? ;) )

/end rant
 
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There was a time not all that long ago when, if you had asked me, what would be the ONE vintage receiver I'd like to own if money were no object, and I'd have said 'the Marantz 2600'. Working on this one has cured me of that. It is a beautiful piece, to be sure...probably THE prettiest receiver ever made, and sounds wonderful as well, but for the technician that beauty ends once the top cover comes off and you find yourself staring at the clusterfuck on the inside. 10lbs of chit in a 5lb bag, and 6lbs of it is inaccessible. If you want/need a vintage 300WPC receiver, go look at the Pioneer SX-1980, or save your lunch money for a Sansui G-33000 (did I really just recommend that someone buy a Sansui??? ;) )

/end rant

Yes, you just said that! :yes:

Probably the wisest words ever spoken on this entire Board. Sansui's :music: really got it going on........:thmbsp:

Thanks for the tip on the Marantz :no:
 
Ah ...go back to your Sansui pages....:smoke: If you haven't been shocked by the Scopes high voltage...:yikes:.You haven't lived life to its fullest...:D. The 25/2600 and a lot of the later models were constructed to different standards...

.
 
I'm thinking between 356 and 361 WPC (into 8 ohms). Heck, I'll say 359.

Actually just an ignorant guess, trying not to pick anyone else's figure. All I know is that it should be a lot more than the rated 300, given Marantz's propensity to understate capacity.

Part of me HOPES it's 401 (or higher)... just so we can have a :yikes: reaction! :D ...but I'm skeptical it will go that high.

Edit: OOPS! I should notice there is a page two and read the entire thread before posting a guess/answer. LOL Wasn't TOO far off, though. :D
 
OK, now that it's up and running, and essentially done, I've been listening to it the last few days. If you told me that I'd never have to tear into it again, I'd retract that last paragraph I wrote in my previous post.

I really like this reciever...from an operational and auditory viewpoint. Might have to find a 'problem' and keep it here a while longer. :)
 
It is all so far over my head I can't even see it.

All I can add is: Don't add raisins to chocolate chip cookies.

:no:
 
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