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New AT-LP120 or older Technics SL-D303?

boreas said:
I think it's important to remember that we're not all Sinophobes here. I think it's more important to moderate our language in all areas, bearing in mind that words can wound us.

It's one thing to express the opinion that "A" is better than "B". That's a comparative assessment that shouldn't cause offense. It's also a direct answer to the OP's (remember him?) original question.

It's quite another thing, however, to make categorical statements that a particular thing is "garbage". It advances nobody's understanding. All it can do is cause offense, especially on the part of readers who happen to own and enjoy the thing in question.

John
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That's the only way Tinear knows to convey his often arrogant message.
 
Great, I believe you have a better table than the new one you considered. Hope you enjoy it for years. Nice choice.
 
The "LP"120 I admit may be inferior, but calling it "garbage" is ridiculous. I have the "PL"120...the older NON-usb model, and it is a very good performer. Of course, not to the level of performance of the 1200, but respectable. I also recently got the ATLP240, which unfortunately is a USB model, but a definite upgrade from the LP120 and a very good performer as well.
 
iLUVanalog said:
The "LP"120 I admit may be inferior, but calling it "garbage" is ridiculous. I have the "PL"120...the older NON-usb model, and it is a very good performer. Of course, not to the level of performance of the 1200, but respectable. I also recently got the ATLP240, which unfortunately is a USB model, but a definite upgrade from the LP120 and a very good performer as well.
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I agree that it is rude to call someone else's gear garbage. Furthermore, I would buy the PL120 before I would a 1200 - with a gun to my head and forced to choose - simply because I would feel less cheated. But that's just me, I don't like 'em and never really have, and never will. So what? Why should anyone who loves them take offense that I don't?

But I don't think a 1200 is garbage - I just think it's a souped-up SLD2 (okay, an SL-Q something) built for rugged use, like a dj lugging it around town. However, there is some hyperbole in there, and there is a lot of it in these threads. It's funny how protective we can be of our preferences sometimes, but there is a difference between criticism and insult.
 
How can you call a Technics SL1200 a "souped up SL-D2"? IMHO the AT deck is from the same stable as Gemini etc. When I compare the 1200 to the Gemini there is a massive difference in audio quality and one thing I know is the 1200 sends the Gemini into orbit and then some!

As far as I'm concerned, the AT deck is more for DJ use whereas the 1200 is a professional quality HIFI deck and I own both the SL1200mk2 and the 1210mk2.
 
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Okay, look. The OP has bought a table that should keep him happy for a long time so all this back and forth, which all along has been pretty annoying, is now utterly pointless. If you guys really want to continue this nonsense, why not just take it private?
 
soundman2 said:
How can you call a Technics SL1200 a "souped up SL-D2"? IMHO the AT deck is from the stable as Gemini etc. When I compare the 1200 to the Gemini there is a massive difference in audio quality and one thing I know is the 1200 sends the Gemini into orbit and then some!

As far as I'm concerned, the AT deck is more for DJ use whereas the 1200 is a professional quality HIFI deck and I own both the SL1200mk2 and the 1210mk2.
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Please, not looking for a fight. I clearly stated there was hyperbole - exaggeration, if you will - in what I wrote there, so I ask not to be quoted out of context. The 1200 is loved by many; I simply am not one of those - many folks may well find my Thorens garbage. So what? Doesn't rob me of the pleasure I get from it anymore than I not liking some other table robs the same from its fans. Truce. :)
 
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Thanks for calling my LP120 TT garbage, to the posters who did so. Much appreciated to this new forum user.

:(
 
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This is a very funny thread!! It actually shows how some people only judge a book by its cover, believe me it does show.

I have a Audio Technica LP120-USB, and I rather enjoy it very much. As one of the posters suggested about the Technics....."if connected correctly will sound very good". This is also the case with the AT LP120 USB.....Yes it has the internal preamp, which is not very good, but if you play with it you can get some very good sound out of it. I run mine as LINE OUT to my DAC11, so the sound is pretty amazing, compared to a Music Hall I auditioned about 2 months ago.
Before my DAC11, I was running the AT as PHONO out to my Onkyo Integra which has PHONO in, but the sound was lacking detail. So I then tested the LINE out to different inputs on my receiver.....I found the best reproduction and soundstage came from using the VDP/VCR input on my receiver....weird I know, but it worked best! Mids came out better and just was more clear sounding.
Now with my NAD C356BEE and Grant Fidelity TubeDAC11 in the mix, the LP120 sounds even better! Tomorrow I plan to go and audition more Music Hall TT just to get a feel for what is out there.....based on previous listens, my TT sounds better in its current setup.

Reason I am looking is either I will upgrade the ATP2XN, which has a heavy track range of 3-5grams, I run mine at 2.2 and tracks fine when I compare it at 3.0....or get another TT since I am over a yr into this LP120USB.
I know there is a mod online where you can remove the internal preamp and it suppose to remove some noise....but I am not into modding my own equipment.
I always feel you can improve sound by tweaking or adding something in the mix.

I could care less that it was made/assembled in China......It sounds pretty damn good to me and I HAVE compared it to other much higher priced tables.

Have a great day!
 
Catcher10 said:
This is a very funny thread!! It actually shows how some people only judge a book by its cover, believe me it does show.

I have a Audio Technica LP120-USB, and I rather enjoy it very much. As one of the posters suggested about the Technics....."if connected correctly will sound very good". This is also the case with the AT LP120 USB.....Yes it has the internal preamp, which is not very good, but if you play with it you can get some very good sound out of it. I run mine as LINE OUT to my DAC11, so the sound is pretty amazing, compared to a Music Hall I auditioned about 2 months ago.
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If you're using the USB output or the line-level analog output, the phono preamp stage that you describe as "not very good" is in the circuit. The only way to bypass it is to select the Phono output level and run the cartridge output to a phono preamp. This can be a separate component or part of a receiver, integrated amp or preamp.

Catcher10 said:
Before my DAC11, I was running the AT as PHONO out to my Onkyo Integra which has PHONO in, but the sound was lacking detail. So I then tested the LINE out to different inputs on my receiver.....I found the best reproduction and soundstage came from using the VDP/VCR input on my receiver....weird I know, but it worked best! Mids came out better and just was more clear sounding.
Now with my NAD C356BEE and Grant Fidelity TubeDAC11 in the mix, the LP120 sounds even better! Tomorrow I plan to go and audition more Music Hall TT just to get a feel for what is out there.....based on previous listens, my TT sounds better in its current setup.

Reason I am looking is either I will upgrade the ATP2XN, which has a heavy track range of 3-5grams, I run mine at 2.2 and tracks fine when I compare it at 3.0....or get another TT since I am over a yr into this LP120USB.
I know there is a mod online where you can remove the internal preamp and it suppose to remove some noise....but I am not into modding my own equipment. ...
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Running a cartridge below its recommended minimum tracking force is not a good idea. The mistracking caused by too little downforce will do more damage to your records than the wear caused by running your cartridge at the proper VTF. Do yourself and your record collection a favor and either increase the downforce or install a cartridge that tracks lighter than the ATP2XN.

If you want to use the USB or line-level analog outputs, you are wise not to remove or disconnect the internal preamp for the reason that I stated above.
 
Hold The Bus! Nobody is looking for a fight, let's concede that if the person is happy with his or her Audio Technica deck then that is OK. It goes back to the old saying "The only person who has to like your hifi is YOU". I feel it's time to move on from this thread now.:)
 
Dr Tinear said:
If you're using the USB output or the line-level analog output, the phono preamp stage that you describe as "not very good" is in the circuit. The only way to bypass it is to select the Phono output level and run the cartridge output to a phono preamp. This can be a separate component or part of a receiver, integrated amp or preamp.
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I know I cannot bypass the internal preamp by using the LINE OUT selection, my point is I get better reproduction running it thru the DAC11 than direct to my NAD.....The noise floor drops dramatically, the GF DAC11 has an incredibly black background. I have also looked at a phono preamp, the NAD MDC Phono is just OK, but better than what I have now. I am looking at the Grant Fidelity Tube Phono Preamp also......At least this way if I do get a new table in the coming months, I'll have the phono preamp already. All of these tweaks while not supremely needed, I know will improve my current vinyl.

Dr Tinear said:
Running a cartridge below its recommended minimum tracking force is not a good idea. The mistracking caused by too little downforce will do more damage to your records than the wear caused by running your cartridge at the proper VTF. Do yourself and your record collection a favor and either increase the downforce or install a cartridge that tracks lighter than the ATP2XN.

If you want to use the USB or line-level analog outputs, you are wise not to remove or disconnect the internal preamp for the reason that I stated above.
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I know about the VTF, but checking with AT techs via email they advised it would not cause harm to run below 3.0.....My easy fix is to buy a lower tracking cart, I just have not found one I am willing to try yet....I am confident once a new cart is installed I will be more amazed with my vinyl sound.
 
The ATP2 isn't very good, from my experience - which makes sense given that AT wanted to at least supply something with the TT, just to get people started.

If you like neutral, there's a lot of a love for the Nagaoka MP-110 - quiet and good with IGD and a step above the ATP2, imo. If you like brightness/clarity, the AT440Mla is wonderful. But, expect an increase in surface noise on certain LP's with the 440.
 
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roebeet said:
The ATP2 isn't very good, from my experience - which makes sense given that AT wanted to at least supply something with the TT, just to get people started.

If you like neutral, there's a lot of a love for the Nagaoka MP-110 - quiet and good with IGD and a step above the ATP2, imo. If you like brightness/clarity, the AT440Mla is wonderful. But, expect an increase in surface noise on certain LP's with the 440.
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In general I agree....its a very durable, tough cart though. Its really made for those who want to DJ and such. Sonically its decent at best, does lack some low end, although on some of my albums that have good lowend, it does do a good job of bringing it out.
The 440 will bring out a lot of surface noise I fear.....agree
 
I didn't intend to offend any AK members re their choice of a turntable and this also includes Chinese turntable mfgs, I'm sure they can make very good turntables if requested to do so. Since there is a possability to offend someone when commenting on choices of turntables, cartridges etc I'll abstain from any similar threads in the future.
 
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