New changes in Klipsch's Heritage series

Tuning my speakers reminded me a lot of my old project car.

20 years ago I paid a friend of mine $300 for a standalone EMS(megasquirt) that he’d put together from a kit.
It came in a box with a wiring harness that consisted of a bunch of different color wires soldered to a DB25 connector.
Over the next two weeks I wired up the Fuel injectors, ignition module, and a wide band o2 sensor, in addition to the temp and MAP sensors necessary for the little box to know what the engine was doing.

There was a base fuel and ignition map that came with the kit and it was enough to start and drive the car.
Over the course of the next few days there were a number of tuning sessions on country backroads with my laptop hooked up logging the air/fuel ratio vs RPM and a lot of other metrics.
After a run getting some logs I would analyze the charts and numbers and make some changes to the fuel numbers etc and save them back into the prom in the box and then go for another rip around the “block”.

After enough iterations the car was running much better than it had on the OEM Bosch engine management.

At the time I saw lots of folks try the same setup on nearly identical cars and not get anywhere with it.

The ability to follow directions and understand what you are seeing is apparently something of a rare gift and translates into many hobbies, not just cars and speakers.
I had Bend calibration tune my BMW M2. Id do full throttle accelerations in 4th gear and send them the recordings. They'd make adjustments, rinse and repeat. They made one map for premium fuel and one map for premium plus Boostane. I could never have gotten such fantastic results on my own and may have damaged the engine.
 
At $3500.00 an additional cost for the DSP, one would have to think that you could better.


 
At $3500.00 an additional cost for the DSP, one would have to think that you could better.


Seems steep alright.

Any idea if the DSP is a custom Klipsch design or if they are white-labelling the DSP from another manufacturer?
 
Not bad for a turnkey solution, and peanuts when compared to the cost of the speakers. 99.9% do not want to mess with microphones, software, and the learning curve.

I just don’t see people tripping over each other to buy any of this stuff. Heritage was already a hard sell.
 
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Not bad for a turnkey solution ...
I have mentioned in the past that I think Klipsch is going for the luxury market, which pretty much implies turnkey solutions. So you have a very valid point there. I guess that some of us, myself included, will never get out of the "I can make it better" mindset.
 
Not bad for a turnkey solution, and peanuts when compared to the cost of the speakers. 99.9% do not want to mess with microphones, software, and the learning curve.

I just don’t see people tripping over each other to buy any of this stuff. Heritage was already a hard sell.
I think I built the lions share of my system, speakers, amps, DSP and preamp for less than the going rate for a used pair of AL5. I made it better, Beranek's law, be damned. looking at recent sale prices on Reverb, I might have built my entire system for less than what they go for.
 
Heritage was already a hard sell
Wasn't the Cornwall IV one of their biggest sellers around 2021? Maybe Im just making that up. I get the not wanting to buy microphones, software, etc...But for $3500 for a bare bones DSP? I have to call a little BS as I constantly read about people perusing this type of setup and those who want the best sound are willing to endure or at least pony up the coin to pay someone to set it up. Maybe the market isn't there and I'm wrong? I must say I think it's an interesting topic.

I think Klipsch is going for the luxury market
By luxury, you mean those who want to showboat. I could see that, but I also see it as serious audiophiles or whatever you wish to call them going nuts over this if was done with a proper DSP.
 
Wasn't the Cornwall IV one of their biggest sellers around 2021? Maybe Im just making that up. I get the not wanting to buy microphones, software, etc...But for $3500 for a bare bones DSP? I have to call a little BS as I constantly read about people perusing this type of setup and those who want the best sound are willing to endure or at least pony up the coin to pay someone to set it up. Maybe the market isn't there and I'm wrong? I must say I think it's an interesting topic.


By luxury, you mean those who want to showboat. I could see that, but I also see it as serious audiophiles or whatever you wish to call them going nuts over this if was done with a proper DSP.
Cornwall may have sold well for Heritage, but if I recall correctly, Heritage make well under 10% of Klipsch‘s sales.

You can get a good, pro processor for well under $1000; my Thomann unit was $500, with 4 inputs, 8 outputs and a remarkable amount of features, less than the cost of well made passives and has 10 bands of PEQ per channel, crossover filters up to 48 db. Graphic EQ on the input stage, FIR filters and more. The downside is that you have to set it up and there’s a steep learning curve for REW. Still, I’m having a hard time getting my head around how their version is worth 7 times what I paid, with less functionality to boot.
 
There are some DSP experts right here on the Forum who can help.
This is the bottom line on this subject, I believe. Don't get mad over the price...(get even). And you don't have to wait until someone puts together a "kit"...that you'll probably find nowadays that you can't or won't afford due to its being badly overpriced. Thirty percent markup is reasonable...not 700%.

Just remember, it was Roy himself that ~20 years ago pushed going active with the 1st-gen Jubilee. Klipsch itself did not even provide a turn-key package with the loudspeakers. You first had to go to Klipsch Professional (cinema) via Cinequip to buy the horns/drivers (about $7K/pair to your doorstep), then to someone else to buy an active crossover, then program it yourself. If you wanted to use other compression drivers than K-69-A, TAD TD-4002 (both now discontinued) or the K-691 (modified phase plug on the B&C DE75 driver), you had to find those settings yourself. There were a fair amount of those sold, considering that it was an off-the-cuff design that Roy did based on user request.

Cornwall may have sold well for Heritage, but if I recall correctly, Heritage make well under 10% of Klipsch‘s sales.
...but likely a disproportionate share of total profits.

Chris
 
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...but likely a disproportionate share of total profits.

Chris
Even with paying US wages, their markups do seem severe; given they’re made in Arkansas, I doubt they’re paying even 50% of scale to their skilled workers. That 700% P&O is probably covering administrative overhead in Indianapolis or wherever the e-suite is located these days. With the low sales numbers for Heritage, I’m surprised that vulture capital doesn’t decide that it’s not viable to manufacture them domestically, even in 3rd-world Arkansas.
 
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Roy used to make a big production about how the sound should leave the horn the way a bubble leaves a bubble wand.

While discussing ways to dress up the K-402, anything involving hard edges around the horn was out.

I would have made the tweeter and midrange horn a single piece, and front mounted it. That just looks kind of half-assed to me.

I could be wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.
 
I think BMS or B&C dual diaphragm compression drivers always makes more sense than separate horn apertures and drivers--especially when they cannot be placed less than 1/4 wavelength from each other at the crossover frequency.

Most people apparently don't understand that internal higher order modes associated with dual diaphragms just don't make it out of the horn's mouth. This is the huge advantage of dual diaphragm compression drivers, and the driver companies know this, which is why they make them. If you time align and EQ flat the two diaphragm outputs, they sound just like TAD 4002 drivers (on K-402 horns).

Klipsch needs to bring the weight of their corporate buying power to bear on bringing down the OEM prices of those type of drivers so that they can save money on horns and assembly time, and have better performance (no lobing or variations in vertical directivity maps between midrange and tweeter bands). You can hear that lobing between separate tweeters/midranges in-room.

Chris
 
Roy used to make a big production about how the sound should leave the horn the way a bubble leaves a bubble wand.

While discussing ways to dress up the K-402, anything involving hard edges around the horn was out.

I would have made the tweeter and midrange horn a single piece, and front mounted it. That just looks kind of half-assed to me.

I could be wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.
At the very least, they could have put a mortise in the mid horn lip in the mold, for the tweeter edge and front mounted them both. I regret not doing that on my 3-way horns, there’s plenty of room for it.
IMG_1868.jpeg

Perhaps I’ll do that on my compact horn when I do a new motor board for it in the coming weeks. I’d have to cut the mortise for the PRV WG4550, mount it, then place the router jig for the tweeter and cut that. It would not leave much room for error, but it’s doable.
 
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