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New Dual Turntables - any opinions?

The problem really is the small production scale today. I've recently already mentioned it in another thread: Back in 1977 Dual-Steidinger still produced roundabout 6000 turntables per day (so probably roundabout 1.5 million per year, assuming 250 production days) - while Dual-Fehrenbacher nowadays produces 15000 to 20000 turntables per year (the production for Thorens probably already included). Or to give you another number: The contract that Grundig finally withdrew from around 1979 or so alone covered 300000 units per year. So it's not much of a wonder, that both the remaining and the newer models have become significantly more expensive - and while it's of course a shame for pretty much any Dual fan, one can to a certain degree even understand, that Fehrenbacher is shying away from any larger investment. Which unfortunately in the meantime also means, that they won't replace more expensive production tools anymore, even if that costs an established feature or means that an established model will have to be discontinued (which will probably soon be the case with the 505-4, which one could consider the last remaining survivor of the Dual-Steidinger era...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
lini said:
The problem really is the small production scale today. I've recently already mentioned it in another thread: Back in 1977 Dual-Steidinger still produced roundabout 6000 turntables per day (so probably roundabout 1.5 million per year, assuming 250 production days) - while Dual-Fehrenbacher nowadays produces 15000 to 20000 turntables per year (the production for Thorens probably already included). Or to give you another number: The contract that Grundig finally withdrew from around 1979 or so alone covered 300000 units per year. So it's not much of a wonder, that both the remaining and the newer models have become significantly more expensive - and while it's of course a shame for pretty much any Dual fan, one can to a certain degree even understand, that Fehrenbacher is shying away from any larger investment. Which unfortunately in the meantime also means, that they won't replace more expensive production tools anymore, even if that costs an established feature or means that an established model will have to be discontinued (which will probably soon be the case with the 505-4, which one could consider the last remaining survivor of the Dual-Steidinger era...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
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You are right, for the simple reason that the vinyl record genre has shrunk to an anemic size. It means that the majority of listeners are not listening to vinyl, and the ones that do listen to vinyl are not quite ok with paying thousands of dollars for a standard tt. Add to this, cheaper units are on the market which are serving some of the very casual vinyl listeners.

It still doesn't quite alleviate the problem for more experienced vinyl listeners, that there are very few choices out in the market for quality new units. If you are not into CDs and prefer vinyl, your choices are left to surviving vintage pieces, mediocre new tt units, and ultra expensive but barely adequate tt units.
 
It is a matter of finding a cart you like through experimentation I suppose, as listening tastes are so subjective to an individual ... I wish I'd paid more attention to great sounding turntables when I was younger.. But the experience available on this site is invaluable..

I am learning a lot about tonearm quality and turntables in general from what I read.. If I can sneak one past my wife I may grab either the Kenwood or Dual I have my eye on.. There is a grace tonearm available locally too I saw... Ah, maybe I wait a bit, now I seem to be on the right track with cart selection...!!

cheers all..
 
Steve Dual said:
It is a matter of finding a cart you like through experimentation I suppose, as listening tastes are so subjective to an individual ... I wish I'd paid more attention to great sounding turntables when I was younger.. But the experience available on this site is invaluable..

I am learning a lot about tonearm quality and turntables in general from what I read.. If I can sneak one past my wife I may grab either the Kenwood or Dual I have my eye on.. There is a grace tonearm available locally too I saw... Ah, maybe I wait a bit, now I seem to be on the right track with cart selection...!!

cheers all..
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I'll say this again, if you have a line on a KD770D at a reasonable price grab it, they don't show up very often. Oh there's been one on eBay recently if you don't mind spending $1800, The tables worth every bit of that but as I paid less than 20% of that it seems a bit steep lol.

I see it's still available.

Screenshot_20180618-231057.png
 
Lini pretty much summed up the present state of turntables in todays market, turntables are very small percentage of audio equipment sold worldwide, probably 2% or less.
 
Grenadeslio said:
I'll say this again, if you have a line on a KD770D at a reasonable price grab it, they don't show up very often. Oh there's been one on eBay recently if you don't mind spending $1800, The tables worth every bit of that but as I paid less than 20% of that it seems a bit steep lol.

I see it's still available.

View attachment 1215629
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I see there's also an Kenwood 880D advertised on a few listings, not much around about that turntable that I could find on vinyl engine, I assume its a top end turntable that fits in between the 770D and 990D..? I am a little curious about Kenwood since reading up a little on their turntables...!!
 
Steve Dual said:
I see there's also an Kenwood 880D advertised on a few listings, not much around about that turntable that I could find on vinyl engine, I assume its a top end turntable that fits in between the 770D and 990D..? I am a little curious about Kenwood since reading up a little on their turntables...!!
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I have two, both are heads above the venerable Technics SL1200 MKII I had around here for awhile. Not surprising as Kenwood was a highly respected table manufacturer.

The upper tier models like the 990 and above really are special.

Some like to remove the plinth and run them skeletonized.

kenwood-kd-990-naked.jpg
 
Very true, re small market share, although vinyl appears to be back in Australia at least, the vinyl section of JB Hi Fi is at least as big as the CD section, and is usually jammed with young adults... Vinyl is now more expensive than CD too...!! But exciting to see it back..!!
 
Grenadeslio said:
Well, the "new" (Looks about the same as the MKII if you ask me, same specs too) Technics SL1200 is $4000, this has way better specs and looks 10X better.
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I noticed while looking at Kenwood products that by 1990 there was only one model of Kenwood turntable available, it was the KD 4020...

Does anyone no much about it? Has a linear tracking tonearm, but doesn't look as solid as its predecessors

images.jpg
 
lini said:
an established model will have to be discontinued (which will probably soon be the case with the 505-4
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Are there some rumors about this or it's just a guess?

Also, do you know if the current 505 is made of wood/mdf or metal as the old ones? I don't mean the plinth but the flat top surface/body around the platter / tonearm (chassis?).
 
js: Iirc, Dualfred got that from Fehrenbacher and mentioned it over on the German Dual-Board: It's exactly that tool for the metal chassis plate, that they expect to wear out next. Successor will probably be the CS526.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
lini said:
js: Iirc, Dualfred got that from Fehrenbacher and mentioned it over on the German Dual-Board: It's exactly that tool for the metal chassis plate, that they expect to wear out next. Successor will probably be the CS526.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
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If I got it right, that means the chassis is metal made. But on the site they say:

"Chassis technology:
Anti-Distortion wooden chassis. Board with floating suspension."
https://www.dual-plattenspieler.eu/en/products/dual-cs-505-4.html

Not sure if they mean the plinth or the chassis? Maybe the tool is already worn and they replaced metal with wood?
 
js: Nope, the chassis plate still is metal. They changed the plinth a bit a while ago, though - and if you take a close look at the pic, you'll also see that the inner gimbal frame of the tonearm isn't the one that would originally belong to that arm anymore, but rather the one that originally belongs to the low-profile variant of the 3rd gen. ULM arm.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
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