• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

New HiFi Enthusiast Setting Up a Reference System

scottyawd said:
@jobrewer1983

Thank you for the encouragement.
I'm going to try to audition some passive LS50s this weekend.
I know I wont be able to take them home but hearing them in person should be a step in the right direction.
Trust me, I've been active on eBay and Craigslist. To that end, I've never heard of Bartlet Town. Thank you for the heads up!

@pfcs49

Tape hiss and record crackles are endearing, especially if it's true to the sound of the music. (-;
I'll look in to the Spotty app. That's actually pretty exciting for me and my significant other!
Do you get the 384k out of it with Spotify Premium?

Thanks fellas!
Click to expand...

It's part of the "perks" of being a subscriber, it's well worth the 25 bucks. I've sold off gear using it fast, also have to be careful... so much good stuff in barter town! :)
 
scotty:
I'll look in to the Spotty app. That's actually pretty exciting for me and my significant other!
Do you get the 384k out of it with Spotify Premium?

me: you know, it almost feels good to say this: I don't know and I don't care!
I think I'm turning into my father. But if you want to know, it's out there somewhere.
I'd rather be listening.
 
scottyawd said:
I'd say the definition of a reference system is a set of components that are ideal for ones listening space, music taste, and budget.
Click to expand...
Reference Point is your goal which will be something better than you have now, and is ever changing. I often ask members, "what's your Reference Point?" when they state something that I need to know where they are coming from. Lets say you start a thread and say this record I bought sounds bad and I can't even see the equipment your using. So I can't trust your judgment without knowing something about your Reference Point.

There is Reference Systems but that's not in your budget as a Reference Systems is one thats good enough to compete with anything on the market. You can hear even the smallest change in the system testing other gear that you add in and test.
 
I wouldn't want SMSL in a reference point system. Especially when there are usually GFA-535s or -535-IIs lying around everywhere for about a buck-fifty. SMSL is fine for a tertiary set-up. My opinion, obviously. I do/have owned both. Adcom in a system, SMSL in a closet. Lots of other choices out there are quieter and have less distortion at moderate to loud spls, too. I just tossed the Adcom in as a readily available, good budget amp.
 
A good starting approach for first time, scottyawd.

I don't have any suggestions as It's all very subjective and what I like might not be what you like, but I will mention that crackles and pops are not a thing unless the record or stylus is damaged or dirty. With well cared for vinyl those anomalies are not part of the experience.

Anyway, i wish you well on this journey :thumbsup:
 
@pfcs49

Touché.

@4-2-7
I appreciate the knowledge bomb and will do my best to use correct terminology in the future. (Especially when I'm starting a thread here :))
The broader point is that I want to build a system that's better than I have now.

@musichal

Thank you for your input. I'm not likely to use the S.M.S.L. for this setup,
I have been looking at Emotiva DS-1 though. They're reviewed very highly, but again, I've never heard any Emotiva equipment in person.

Thoughts?

Thanks again for all the input.
 
@datafone

Thank you for the well wishes on this adventure.

Most records that I've found at thrift shops and garage sales have aired on the side of well used as apposed to well cared for. But crackle and pop are the cost of immediate gratification so be it. :-) All part of the adventure.

Thanks!
 
scottyawd said:
@datafone

Thank you for the well wishes on this adventure.

Most records that I've found at thrift shops and garage sales have aired on the side of well used as apposed to well cared for. But crackle and pop are the cost of immediate gratification so be it. :) All part of the adventure.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
More power to you :)

But remember that using a quality stylus on beat up records will beat it up, and a damaged stylus will damage good records ;) As long as you are aware that's what matters ( and my only aim here) and maybe you can save better stylus for use with better records, only :cool:
 
scottyawd said:
The broader point is that I want to build a system that's better than I have now.
Click to expand...
Correct, and generally the goal for most till they come to a point of realization "Hey I'm Done it's good enough"

scottyawd said:
Most records that I've found at thrift shops and garage sales have aired on the side of well used as apposed to well cared for. But crackle and pop are the cost of immediate gratification so be it. :) All part of the adventure.
Click to expand...

Here you will be missing a ton of sound quality. Learn about records, they are not all mastered the same for the same title. There is also a reason that some new records cost a lot, some of the best masterings and pressing work is being done today. You'd be far better of with one outstanding record than 20 junk copies, they take up storage space and if you ever want a system to sound good playing records it all starts at the stylus meeting the groove.
 
@datafone

That's a good point. I try to keep the cartridge my turntable came with pretty healthy and the records I play clean to the best of my ability. I like the idea of having a thrift store cartridge and a new/good vinyl cartridge... or even better a separate turntable. Haha.

@4-2-7

Good lookin' out.
 
JoeESP9 said:
What's reference is all a matter of individual taste and finances. As an example, I've never considered any bookshelf speakers to be reference regardless of the "studio monitor" label. IMO/E most bookshelf speakers don't go low enough to be a reference. All the true reference gear I've ever heard in 50+ years with this hobby has been expensive even used. For more recent gear make that unbelievably expensive.

I've never heard of Ryan Audio or Buchardt. My system is modular to the point of using all separates and 4 mono blocks to bi-amp via an electronic crossover. It is an IMO very good two channel system to which I've added surround/HT capability. All two channel sources are connected to my preamp and to my front amplifiers, crossover, DSP and speakers. All surround/HT sources are connected to my pre/pro. It is used by placing my preamp in bypass mode and turning on my rear amps and crossover. This gives me a very good dedicated two channel system that with the flick of a switch becomes a good HT system. There is little to no compromising of either.

BTW: My personal reference for sound is the Philadelphia Orchestra at The Kimmel Center. Very few systems (maybe 3) I've heard even come close.
Click to expand...

Yannick N-Z, the Phillies' conductor, is a friend of mine. That's a pretty sweet sound reference you have!
 
You can get the unpowered Kef LS-50's right now at Crutchfield or the Kef Store for $1299 a pair rather than $1499 regular.With your speaker budget,you could get a good sub to go with them if need be.
 
How about a new Parasound Classic 2100 preamp that comes with a mm/mc preamp for $695..Parasound is a highly respected brand.They have them at Audio Advisor.
They also have the Parasound 2250 power amp on sale right now.Usually $1395.Right now,$995.
 
Last edited:
Good Classic JBL bookshelves would include 4410, 4412 and 120Ti. I'd broaden the search to include those as well as the 4313b. The smaller L1 and XPL90 also have a pretty good following although they are going to lack the lower end impact of the 10 and 12 inch 3-ways I mentioned.

jblnut
 
JoeESP9 said:
I'm from the Harry Pearson, J. Gordon Holt school of reference. To paraphrase "The only true reference is the sound of live unamplified instruments performing in a real space".
Click to expand...

Still, I am envious of your source of reference. I have heard plenty of professional "unamplified instruments performing in a real space" who sound worse than my stereo system. :)
 
If musicians playing/performing live using unamplified acoustic instruments sound that bad why would you bother listening? What are you listening to, grade school and junior high ensembles? Here's a tip; those types of ensembles/orchestras rarely sound very good regardless of how the parents may think.

The real question is, can your system reproduce these "worse sounding" instruments/performances accurately.?:D
 
I think you are off to a great start and welcome to AK.

I wonder if you are going to be able to fill that room with bookshelf sized speakers. Mostly in the very low end. But there are bookshelves, and there are bookshelves. Worst case you can add a small sub somewhere. Put a doily on it and no one will notice.
 
JoeESP9 said:
I'm from the Harry Pearson, J. Gordon Holt school of reference. To paraphrase "The only true reference is the sound of live unamplified instruments performing in a real space".
Click to expand...

Good point! There is no substitute for live acoustical instruments. There's a reason it's called high fidelity.

For the OP, I'd be looking at Harbeth, Magnepan, Thiel, Focal, and Vandersteen for speakers. Since people tend to like different things in a loudspeaker, you'll need to listen to the speakers. As mentioned above, keep the Tandberg preamp and spend the money on a better power amplifier.

Keep in mind that a stand mount speaker will take up about the same amount of floor space as a floor speaker.
 
Last edited:
To the OP, I am really enjoying your question and considerations; with a couple of exceptions your parameters are similar to the goals and price range of what my "next step up" might be. As for the discussion of the definition of "reference", not sure about the relevance. You stated that you want to put together a system that will reveal precisely as possible what is on the actual recording, and then you gave a detailed budget of how much you have to spend to accomplish that. Probably one of the clearer questions I've seen posted.

I don't trust my own judgement enough to make specific recommendations, but I will suggest that, as you put the system together, keep in mind your potential preferences for the other gear that you will add. A while back, I came across a great deal on a Krell power amp and bought it with the idea of taking the first step toward upgrading my current system. But I did so without really thinking through what those other components might be - I figured that I'd build the system around the amp. Well, the Krell has plenty of power to drive just about anything, but I've come to realize that in order to utilize it best, it directs me toward a specific path. I hadn't put a lot of thought into what that path looks like.

It never hurts, I suppose, to have plenty of horsepower, though your stated use (apartment and medium to low listening levels) certainly implies that 300wpc isn't a high priority. But I'm not suggesting that you should go one way or the other, only that you might do well to avoid my impulsive behavior. Your desire to experiment with changing out different gear will require flexibility in the set up (probably don't want a low powered tube amp...) but having some idea of the range of gear you'd like to play with may help to focus your search.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom