New ideas for an Empire 598 rebuild...

[Vinylmasters]

Yesterday I somehow managed to acquire a working Empire 598 (ver.1), complete except for the "L" piece of wood of the dust cover (I have all other pieces for it).

I've been reading a bit, and I'm almost thinking that a new plinth and dust cover (preferably hinged) might be a better idea. I'm also thinking of some mods as well - mainly replacing the 5 pin plug with RCA jacks (with grounding lug) and replacing the spring suspension.

Or is this sacrilege?

Any ideas on part sources?

I want to re-do the faded gold plating as well. Has anyone ever tried this place before?

http://www.kraudioproducts.com/Polishing-Restoration/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=66&ProductID=217#

Any thoughts or suggestions? I want this table to be a 'keeper', and be the best it can be, yet keep the original workings (and tonearm) pretty much intact. I'm all ears....

 

[malden]

I would restore it to its original condition.

 

[Bugler]

I agree with Malden. Keep it original or sell it and move on to something closer to your liking.

 

[LoStrings]

I own one, and I think its best to keep it original.

 

[Collin1141]

I wouldn't hesitate to improve on an old 598 it's not like it's a rare machine
Unless of course it was pristine then I'd have second thoughts
I think any of the Empires would benefit greatly from a better plinth over the stock bread box
Here's a nice one with a Mayware Formula 4

 

[malden]

I wouldn't hesitate to improve on an old 598 it's not like it's a rare machine
I think any of the Empires would benefit greatly from a better plinth over the stock bread box
Here's a nice one with a Mayware Formula 4
View attachment 941511

That's a nice looking turntable...

The 598 is a suspended sub-chassis turntable so how does a new plinth improve upon the original?

 

[Collin1141]

That's a nice looking turntable...

The 598 is a suspended sub-chassis turntable so how does a new plinth improve upon the original?

Same as getting nice Duals out of those resonance chambers United Audio stuck 'em all in
Definitely benefit from some bracing and damping if not outright replacement
What I would do would all depend on condition but there is definitely room for improvement even if it's the kind you can't see
I am not an advocate of butchering up nice old Empire turntables if they are clean examples but if it's less than pristine what's the harm?
The drive train is a wonderful candidate for improvements and unless you're in it more for the time travel proposition there is definitely room for improvement with the tonearms unless you go with something like a DL-103
Just do everything in a way that's reversible and hang on to all the original parts

 

[malden]

I have a stock 598 and hear no "resonances" or other artifacts. It's a fine turntable as-is. I would think that the engineers at Empire knew what they were doing. I also have a stock 398, it does not have a suspended sub-chassis, and it also sounds excellent.

 

[Collin1141]

I have a stock 598 and hear no "resonances" or other artifacts. It's a fine turntable as-is. I would think that the engineers at Empire knew what they were doing. I also have a stock 398, it does not have a suspended sub-chassis, and it also sounds excellent.

Wasn't shopping for a debate or an argument
Glad you like your table

 

[Vinylmasters]

Just to note: this isn't pristine. It needs work without a doubt. The cover is in pieces (one piece is missing), the veneer is pretty rough too. I plan on getting it torn completely down, and restored from the ground up (including new gold plating on everything). Which begs a question.... I know there are quite a few people that re-do Dual's on here, but is there anyone that does Empire's?? I know there are certain issues with it too - power cord is brittle, the 5 pin plug is shorting and has known problems anyway. I want to make sure old wire and such isn't going to be a problem later on. The plinth is NOT walnut either - it's veneer covering particle board. I'd rather have real wood (curly maple would look incredible with all that gold plating!).

Some may scream, but the original cart is coming out - for a universal mount for p-mounts as well. I'll run an Empire 195LT with a 246-DEX stylus, an Empire 875-XLT (a quad styli), and a Shure and AT 78's stylus in extra carts I have for any 78's I have - not to mention all the other p-mounts I have here. I figure that by running p-mounts it'll take some stress off of the headshell too.

As for the suspension, I can't stand those springs! I'm going to re-do my Dual 1229 as well (in fact, the Dual is going to get the same type of thing on the plinth too). Maybe just get some rubber bushings around the same size as the springs and just bolt them in and see how that works. Ditto the feet too.

I'm REALLY intrigued to compare these classics to my JVC QL-Y-55f too, which is my main table. That should be an interesting test!

 

[Sam Cogley]

Let the purists howl. It's your turntable, do what you'll enjoy.

 

[Collin1141]

Just to note: this isn't pristine. It needs work without a doubt. The cover is in pieces (one piece is missing), the veneer is pretty rough too. I plan on getting it torn completely down, and restored from the ground up (including new gold plating on everything). Which begs a question.... I know there are quite a few people that re-do Dual's on here, but is there anyone that does Empire's?? I know there are certain issues with it too - power cord is brittle, the 5 pin plug is shorting and has known problems anyway. I want to make sure old wire and such isn't going to be a problem later on. The plinth is NOT walnut either - it's veneer covering particle board. I'd rather have real wood (curly maple would look incredible with all that gold plating!).

Some may scream, but the original cart is coming out - for a universal mount for p-mounts as well. I'll run an Empire 195LT with a 246-DEX stylus, an Empire 875-XLT (a quad styli), and a Shure and AT 78's stylus in extra carts I have for any 78's I have - not to mention all the other p-mounts I have here. I figure that by running p-mounts it'll take some stress off of the headshell too.

As for the suspension, I can't stand those springs! I'm going to re-do my Dual 1229 as well (in fact, the Dual is going to get the same type of thing on the plinth too). Maybe just get some rubber bushings around the same size as the springs and just bolt them in and see how that works. Ditto the feet too.

I'm REALLY intrigued to compare these classics to my JVC QL-Y-55f too, which is my main table. That should be an interesting test!

I don't know exactly what it is you have I can only imagine without photos but the carts you are suggesting will not be good choices for the heavy arm that came on those tables stock
I'm not really feeling you on what it is you want to accomplish
Are you after a one of a kind eye candy machine basically more about looks and that will just play your records without harming them or a truly high performance turntable table?
Not quite sure?
There is nothing wrong with P-mounts at all, except you will definitely be limiting yourself as for choices after spending what it is looking like is going to be a sizable sum of money to do to this machine all that you propose
I say that because it sounds like you'll be paying someone else to do all of this stuff for you
If you want to ditch the mattress springs I'd go with a laminated plinth like what the Garrard 301 and Lenco guys do, that and a modern low to medium mass tonearm that will allow you full advantage of today's high compliance carts
But then what do you do if you want to sample some low compliance moving coil maybe in the future?
Sorry for the ramble I guess I just don't get your game plan or what it is exactly you want to accomplish
Do you own another 598? Do you know you like the sound of the old Empires?

 

[Vinylmasters]

I don't know exactly what it is you have I can only imagine without photos but the carts you are suggesting will not be good choices for the heavy arm that came on those tables stock
I'm not really feeling you on what it is you want to accomplish
Are you after a one of a kind eye candy machine basically more about looks and that will just play your records without harming them or a truly high performance turntable table?
Not quite sure?
There is nothing wrong with P-mounts at all, except you will definitely be limiting yourself as for choices after spending what it is looking like is going to be a sizable sum of money to do to this machine all that you propose
I say that because it sounds like you'll be paying someone else to do all of this stuff for you
If you want to ditch the mattress springs I'd go with a laminated plinth like what the Garrard 301 and Lenco guys do, that and a modern low to medium mass tonearm that will allow you full advantage of today's high compliance carts
But then what do you do if you want to sample some low compliance moving coil maybe in the future?
Sorry for the ramble I guess I just don't get your game plan or what it is exactly you want to accomplish
Do you own another 598? Do you know you like the sound of the old Empires?

I want a REALLY nice table - doesn't have to be stock. I don't think a better plinth will 'harm the sound' however. I understand the arm, and know it can track light enough. I have a LOT of p-mounts. I'm going to use them too. I know my needs and wants in regards to carts and such. I'm 'good' there. Some of the work I will do, some I won't. I'm NOT changing the arm though. And yes, I have heard an Empire - this one. It works fine except for the cue. It sounds as good as the others I mentioned as well as a Denon DP-51f with a MC. But again, I know my needs too.

 

[Collin1141]

I want a REALLY nice table - doesn't have to be stock. I don't think a better plinth will 'harm the sound' however. I understand the arm, and know it can track light enough. I have a LOT of p-mounts. I'm going to use them too. I know my needs and wants in regards to carts and such. I'm 'good' there. Some of the work I will do, some I won't. I'm NOT changing the arm though. And yes, I have heard an Empire - this one. It works fine except for the cue. It sounds as good as the others I mentioned as well as a Denon DP-51f with a MC. But again, I know my needs too.

Have fun and be sure to share photos!

 

[bolero]

it should be easy enough to switch between traditional carts and your P mount system, using the removeable plates on the 598 headshell

it would be cool to build a solid wood case for it. I really like the original cosmetics of the Empires

When I used a DL-103, the rear panel didn't let me unscrew the counter balance enough, to set it up. I had to tape a coin on the back of the arm.

So you may want to leave that back panel off

 

[malden]

Let the purists howl. It's your turntable, do what you'll enjoy.

For me it's more about whether or not the turntable can be improved upon. It's relatively easy to make it look better and if that's what the OP has in mind then that's great.
I actually like the way this one looks...

Making it perform better than what the Empire engineers had conceived of is not so easy.

 

[MRL_Audio]

Someone said it earlier in the thread, It's your table do what you please. Me? I am a traditionalist and appreciate what the manufacturers produced in most cases. I am not opposed to "tweaking" anything to make it better but I generally like the original look and feel. The more original the better. My two cents.

 

[Vinylmasters]

Someone said it earlier in the thread, It's your table do what you please. Me? I am a traditionalist and appreciate what the manufacturers produced in most cases. I am not opposed to "tweaking" anything to make it better but I generally like the original look and feel. The more original the better. My two cents.

Me too. Except in this case the plinth is pretty much shot. I'd have to re-create it anyway. Why not create it with some really nice wood?

I'm almost looking at this as "Empire 598 v.4" right now. What would Empire had done if they made a new model? That type of thing.

 

[malden]

I love my 598 but I have to say that the goofy tone-arm rest / light bugs me. It's just too clunky looking. If there is an elegant way to remove it and cover the hole, I may consider doing that but I've seen it done in ways that makes the turntable look worse.

 

[Collin1141]

Someone said it earlier in the thread, It's your table do what you please. Me? I am a traditionalist and appreciate what the manufacturers produced in most cases. I am not opposed to "tweaking" anything to make it better but I generally like the original look and feel. The more original the better. My two cents.

Not to stray too far off topic but back in the day just because a manufacturer did something did not necessarily mean it was the best way to go
Or today for that matter
An example already mentioned were the cheesy United Audio bases for Duals
Thorens too
Or, cramming a huge tube amp, a turntable and two massive 15" woofers all within inches of each other like they did in a lot of high end consoles
Fantastic electronics, beautiful cabinetry, but not so great for the best vibration and resonance control set up