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New Music + Classic Equipment = ?

C

Coelacanth

New Member
It’s been a long while, so please be gentle.

I have not had the financial resources to be able to indulge my interests in audio – but things have finally changed and I can dip my toes again. However I find that technology and trends have well and truly moved on – or at least seem to have.

Example: I am currently listening on a $20 pair of computer speakers to some new tracks on Spotify and cannot believe how much I am enjoying the production, playback sound, and the convenience of this setup. 10 years ago, equivalent ‘systems’ were unlistenable. There seems to be a common thread when I listen to new gear in shops, at friends’ houses etc. I am that much more impressed than I have been in the past, often even by low-investment gear.

The music has changed too, obviously. Is it just me or do these modern recordings feature all sorts of complex phase-related enhancements? The ‘trippy’ sound that hooked me on Pink Floyd 30 years ago, seems to be woven into everything new that I listen to – making many older recordings seem plane-jane. I have wondered if this is a technique used to appeal to the massive number of headphone users – and it leads me (almost) to the reason for my post… but first…

It has been my plan to push “go” on all the parts I require to complete a replica build of a pair of Altec 19’s. The rest of the plan included some kind of valve amplification and a file-based source setup. I can see this all adding up but I know it will be worth it for the massive, non-fatiguing sound that I have loved in the past from my old KHorns and Type 45 / similar SE amps. Two months ago, I would never have considered an alternative to this well-trodden path. But after finding I am really enjoying some of the aforementioned music, and also having spent a bit of time listening to solid-state gear mated with ‘normal’ speakers - I have started to reconsider.

I wanted to ask those of you who are still running classic speakers like the Altecs, JBL’s, Klipsch’s etc with valve gear just how this contemporary sound is working for you?

I have started to wonder if comparatively dry and analytical equipment might actually have an edge with the recording / production techniques I am hearing. I can go and listen to this stuff on any number of main-stream products immediately, but nowhere in my vicinity can throw it on some classic gear. First to admit I coming from real ignorance here and would really appreciate some constructive words even on the general discussion, if not the specific question. Thanks for your help!
 
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I'm a solid state guy as well, so I can't speak on how well new music sounds with tubes. However, it must sound good considering how many tube users there are out there right now. Just keep in mind that modern music has higher bass peaks (and more bass in general) than older music so more wattage is generally needed to handle that.
 
Since I'm not still running horns, maybe I'm butting in. I am running a classic speaker with valve gear, however.

In my opinion, your question is a variant of the ongoing debate between two organizing principles, "high fidelity" and "musicality". I'm not enough of a philosopher to equate this duality with others like classic vs. romantic, body vs. mind, left-brain vs. right brain, or even East coast vs. West Coast...

I do have a curiosity about "you are there" versus "they are here" presentations, and whether they imply that there might be more than one "correct" version of high fidelity, or whether both are simply inaccuracies. And in the musicality realm, I definitely think that different musical genres and even different musical instruments are better done with some speakers than others.

In the end, I am in the musicality camp, but I think that high-fidelity is the fastest way to get ninety percent of the way to the destination. I think it is important to be able to hear as much as possible from recordings, before deciding what you prefer, or else you might be missing something good. After that, to mix metaphors, season to taste. As to your particular dilemma, I see nothing preventing you from having both, except the usual (money, space, domestic harmony, etc.). I almost bought a pair of Altec 19s a couple of years ago, and may yet complement the Quads. After all, although I probably hear more things on my recordings through the Quads than I did with the corner-horns I made 35 years ago, there is no way I could claim that they reproduce rock 'n' roll music better.

:music:
 
I have a pair of Altec A7's in my workshop that are driven by NAD pre / power amps, a Dynaco FM5 tuner and a cheap Sony DVD player for CD's. I listen to EVERYTHING, new or old. Classical, indie rock and post rock on college radio, jazz. classic rock, you name it. It all sounds good thru those A7's. I wish they would fit in my house.

At home I have various tube and solid state amps and several sets of speakers that I occasionally drag up from the basement for a change of pace.

If I were to generalize, I'd say for jazz and classical, I prefer tube gear with pre 70's JBL's. For classic rock and heavy metal (I listen to a lot of Black Sabbath). I prefer solid state with pre 80's JBL's.

If you have room the the Altec 19's, you will not be disappointed.
 
Coelacanth said:
The music has changed too, obviously. Is it just me or do these modern recordings feature all sorts of complex phase-related enhancements? The ‘trippy’ sound that hooked me on Pink Floyd 30 years ago, seems to be woven into everything new that I listen to – making many older recordings seem plane-jane. I have wondered if this is a technique used to appeal to the massive number of headphone users – and it leads me (almost) to the reason for my post…
Click to expand...

David Byrne (Talking Heads) gave a Ted talk six years ago about how architecture helped music evolve. Basically songs were written for the venue and eventually the technology of the time. Not sure if this is what you are getting at (headphone users) ... but here is the video.

 
David Byrne (Talking Heads) gave a Ted talk six years ago about how architecture helped music evolve. Basically songs were written for the venue and eventually the technology of the time. Not sure if this is what you are getting at (headphone users) ... but here is the video.

Thanks for the excellent vid. I had the pleasure of meeting David Byrne a few years ago after a concert in Auckland - an interesting man. Certainly he touches here on what I was talking about.. If you knew that your target audience were mostly listening on headphones, I guess it would make sense to record in such as way as for the end result to sound captivating on headphones. The dynamic, clean processed sound of some of the modern recordings - well - I wondered if some of the allure this has might be lost on the older gear - I remember that musically the Khorns were pretty hard to beat, but that big horn sound playing back this stuff might be similar to Mozart in the Gothic cathedral..... It is likely I am way overthinking this and just need to act....

Posts like this inspire me to get on and do it....

↑
I have a pair of Altec A7's in my workshop that are driven by NAD pre / power amps, a Dynaco FM5 tuner and a cheap Sony DVD player for CD's. I listen to EVERYTHING, new or old. Classical, indie rock and post rock on college radio, jazz. classic rock, you name it. It all sounds good thru those A7's. I wish they would fit in my house.

At home I have various tube and solid state amps and several sets of speakers that I occasionally drag up from the basement for a change of pace.

If I were to generalize, I'd say for jazz and classical, I prefer tube gear with pre 70's JBL's. For classic rock and heavy metal (I listen to a lot of Black Sabbath). I prefer solid state with pre 80's JBL's.

If you have room the the Altec 19's, you will not be disappointed.

Thank you for your words.... Lucky you owning a pair of A7's. The old Khorns held the same place for me - everything sounded awesome. I remember going and listening to a pair of Avante Garde Duo Omega's mated to gear far in excess of the quality of my own - that system sure did lots more things far better than mine - except play music....! I would go home and slump down in my chair, utterly relieved to be back listening to music instead of 'aspects of sound'. I only wish I could revisit that same system I had now and really put it through its paces against the latest generation gear... My heart tells me I know where I would end up though.

Fortunately I do have the space for the 19's inside large open-plan space. I think these are going to be near impossible to beat in what they do well. If they aren't so mind-bendingly good with some tracks, maybe I will buy a set of nasssssty headphones to bridge the gap.

Thanks everyone for your input. I realize I probably make little sense. This is part of a re-grounding exercise - I appreciate the words.
 
I remember reading a blogger some years ago ... who said that he could get a a rig to be very Analog or Digital friendly (sounding) ... but not both. He had to concentrate on one or the other. If he tried to cover both ... it never worked for him. :dunno: ... I never swapped enough equipment out to make a definitive judgement on that.

I do know that I had a rig set up (early 2000's) that was built (from the start) around Classic Rock Vinyl playback and it did not do justice (IMHO) to CD playback ... those were my Vinyl rebel years. Long story short ... over the years my audio rig has evolved to play both well ... but not in the same way. My Vinyl playback now does not sound like my old rig ... all good ... just different.

If you browse though cable to satellite TV music channels ... 50s, 60s,70's 80's, 90's ... etc ... you become aware of how music reproduction has changed through the years ... it would not surprise me if some rigs could be put together that take advantage of certain time periods or musical genre's in some cases.
 
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Condorsat said:
I remember reading a blogger some years ago ... who said that he could get a a rig to be very Analog or Digital friendly (sounding) ... but not both. He had to concentrate on one or the other. If he tried to cover both ... it never worked for him. :dunno: ... I never swapped enough equipment out to make a definitive judgement on that.

I do know that I had a rig set up (early 2000's) that was built (from the start) around Classic Rock Vinyl playback and it did not do justice (IMHO) to CD playback ... those were my Vinyl rebel years. Long story short ... over the years my audio rig has evolved to play both well ... but not in the same way. My Vinyl playback now does not sound like my old rig ... all good ... just different.

If you browse though cable to satellite TV music channels ... 50s, 60s,70's 80's, 90's ... etc ... you become aware of how music reproduction has changed through the years ... it would not surprise me if some rigs could be put together that take advantage of certain time periods or musical genre's in some cases.
Click to expand...

The blogger's experience has not been my own, and I would like to experience what he was on about for myself in order to understand. Friendly or unfriendly to certain genres I can easily understand, but the endless format arguments are much less comprehensible to me. I think many audiophiles would be challenged by blind identification of analog or digital on my rig. I guess I've assumed that kids endeared by vinyl's "totally different sound" are experiencing it on decidedly low-fidelity (to the recording) vinyl front-ends, or using actual loudspeakers for the first time. Which is totally cool by me, but not a property of the format.
 
I agree with you sql. Many of those newbies listening to vinyl have never heard music through any sort of speakers, let alone good ones.
 
sqlsavior said:
The blogger's experience has not been my own, and I would like to experience what he was on about for myself in order to understand. Friendly or unfriendly to certain genres I can easily understand, but the endless format arguments are much less comprehensible to me. I think many audiophiles would be challenged by blind identification of analog or digital on my rig. I guess I've assumed that kids endeared by vinyl's "totally different sound" are experiencing it on decidedly low-fidelity (to the recording) vinyl front-ends, or using actual loudspeakers for the first time. Which is totally cool by me, but not a property of the format.
Click to expand...

The blogger comments were made back in the early 2000's ... "format arguments" were common back then with many people divided into one of two camps as I remember it ... anyway.


Over the years ... I've evolved to believe in the way albums are mastered ... vs formats.
 
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