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New or old cartridge?

ranf1970

ranf1970

Life without music would be a mistake.
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If you had the choice of spending $99 on a used Nagaoka MP-11 Boron or a new cartridge, like a Ortophon 2M Red, AT440MLa or Denon DL-110, which one would you go for? Why? This will be going on a Dual 1009 SK TT. I listen to mostly hip hop, alternative rock and industrial music. I would like rich, clear sound and deep/tight bass. I am also open to other cartridge suggestions in the same price catagory. Thanks!
 
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Which Dual model exactly? And would that be a used cart with used needle or a used cart with new original replacment needle?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Hey lini,

I have the Dual 1009 SK. The Nagaoka is used but in "mint" condition. The others would be new in box to replace the cartridge (Stanton 500) that I have now. I also edited my original post adding some extra info. Thanks!
 
That Nagaoka cartridge is very well regarded. Unfortunately, while replacement styli are available, replacement styli with the boron cantilever are rare as hen's teeth. Many think it is really the boron cantilever that made that particular cartridge such a sweet performer, and the replacement styli make a very good cartridge merely good by comparison.

Of those carts on the list, I'm inclined to think that the Ortofon would be the best choice, though I might suggest something from the OM series. I'm not sure the Denon would be the best match for the Dual tonearm from a compliance standpoint. The AT cartridge might be a better match, but it does tend to be a more detailed (brighter) sounding cartridge, and you'd need to judge whether that type of presentation would be suitable to your taste.
 
Thanks Whell! I'll look into the OM series. Do you have any particular recommendations? Thanks again!
 
The Ortofon OM Super models 10, 20, 30 or 40, as your budget allows. They are the same cartridge, with the only difference among the four models being the shape of the stylus tip (and, of course, the cost!). The nice thing about the OM series is that you can, for example, purchase an OM-20 Super cartridge today, and upgrade to the OM-30 Super just be changing the stylus.

The OM series is being discontinued, replaced by the Ortofon Red, Black, et. al., but cartridges and styli are still readily available, both new and used, at a number of places around the internet.

Note - watch out for the "OMB" series of Ortofon cartridges, as these are not upgradeable as described above.
 
Thanks again Whell! I will definitely take a look at your recommendations! :music:
 
whell said:
(...) Note - watch out for the "OMB" series of Ortofon cartridges, as these are not upgradeable as described above.
Click to expand...

I don't know why that rumour still keeps coming up, although it's not true. Fact is: OMBs are the bulk versions of the older OM models - i.e., same carts, just without the accessories and fancier packaging for end users. And they are just as upgradeable as the regular OMs or the newer OM-Supers (which use the same needles, but have a slightly modified generator in their bodies).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
I have 2 Ortofons, both OM series. They are very good on your taste in music. The minimum buy is probably the 20 stylus. But, if you can stretch the budget a bit, the 30 stylus is the way to go. It is a micro-line contact stylus and will run circles around the others.

However, if the Nagaoka MP-11 truly has a Boron cantilever and stylus in good shape AND you can get it for $99, you can flip it on the 'Bay for enough to buy whatever Ortofon you want. They are highly regarded, especially for Jazz and some Classical.
 
whell: I also read that on the GAR site - and I really wonder how they got that idea. Different versions in different countries? Or maybe a change in the series (could be, as it really is rather old now...), and that remark was true for some earlier versions? I don't know. However, I can assure you that it has already worked for lots of people without any problems.

But maybe you prefer another dealer website quote - then here's one from a well-established phono specialist over here in Berlin, namely PhonoPhono: "Im Vergleich spielt das Ortofon OMB10 viel ruhiger, löst besser auf und kann durch Nadeltausch (z.B. Nadel 20) erheblich aufgewertet werden." (means "In comparision the OMB10 plays a lot mellower, provides higher resolution and can be significantly upgraded by swapping the needle (e.g. Stylus 20).") Context is this buying advice page on good budget cartridges: http://www.phonophono.de/YPreiswert__gut2.php3

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
I am using the Denon DL-110 but I am so new in the game that I don't have much to compare it too. The sound seems full and rich to me with good bass and highs. They claim it the stylus tip reaches deeper in the groove so it plays older/used records more efficiently. Thus the reason I chose it. I can't tell if it cuts out any crackly/poppy sound or not. It does perform way better than the Empire cart that I had before and has a richer fuller sound than my old AT-11E cart.

I was thinking about picking up a MP-11 for my next cartridge but was going to change the stylus on my AT carts first. I do like these threads. Although I have nothing to add but my limited experience - I always follow these valuable threads.
 
lini said:
whell: I also read that on the GAR site - and I really wonder how they got that idea. Different versions in different countries? Or maybe a change in the series (could be, as it really is rather old now...), and that remark was true for some earlier versions? I don't know. However, I can assure you that it has already worked for lots of people without any problems.

But maybe you prefer another dealer website quote - then here's one from a well-established phono specialist over here in Berlin, namely PhonoPhono: "Im Vergleich spielt das Ortofon OMB10 viel ruhiger, löst besser auf und kann durch Nadeltausch (z.B. Nadel 20) erheblich aufgewertet werden." (means "In comparision the OMB10 plays a lot mellower, provides higher resolution and can be significantly upgraded by swapping the needle (e.g. Stylus 20).") Context is this buying advice page on good budget cartridges: http://www.phonophono.de/YPreiswert__gut2.php3

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...

LP Gear also maintains that the OMB 10 can be upgraded with the 20, 30, stylus. I guess I'd simply prefer the regular OM line given the room for doubt.
 
I have a M2 Red and it is fantastic, it sounds great with all genders of
music and it can be upgraded to the blue at some point. As they share the
generator. The red has a bonded eliptical stylus the blue has a non bonded
eliptical.......:yes:
 
Hi,

With your old Dual 1009, I would stick with a medium mass cartridge. That would make the Audio-Technica AT 440 MLa not recommended. The Denon may not be nice choice with that Dual. Why not try an Audio-Technica AT 110 E/T in the Dual!
 
Well, you opened a small can of worms?

jazzgoose said:
I am using the Denon DL-110 but I am so new in the game that I don't have much to compare it too. The sound seems full and rich to me with good bass and highs. They claim it the stylus tip reaches deeper in the groove so it plays older/used records more efficiently. Thus the reason I chose it. I can't tell if it cuts out any crackly/poppy sound or not. It does perform way better than the Empire cart that I had before and has a richer fuller sound than my old AT-11E cart.

I was thinking about picking up a MP-11 for my next cartridge but was going to change the stylus on my AT carts first. I do like these threads. Although I have nothing to add but my limited experience - I always follow these valuable threads.
Click to expand...

IIRC - the 11e is a less compliant suspension than most ATs. I think it was built for older heavier arms. Would not put one on a light arm. With a 12 or better stylus assembly it will work on a lighter arm but the resolution may not be what you expect. An MP-11 with Boron cantilever will work on light arms (very well). So the two are targeted at different applications.
 
I would think the Denon would be fine with the 1009 tonearm as it is fairly low in compliance. I didn't like the AT440 at all - too shrill sounding BUT an outstanding tracker (I have a 1019). That vintage Dual tonearm works best with a medium compliance cartridge so a lower end Ortofon or something like the Stanton would be a good choice. If you want a HO MC cart, like the Denon, I would suggest an Ortofon MC1. An AT11E would be fine for the Dual tonearm and it sounds good.

I use a Pickering XV15-750E on my 1019 but used a Stanton 681EEE cartridge for a long time. They are actually very very similar and the stylus assemblies are interchangable.

The Ortofon OMB series CAN be upgraded with a higher number stylus. I have an OMB10 with a current 20-series stylus and it works just fine. Like a previous poster said, the OMB series is "bulk" meaning they were intended for dealers and service technicians rather than a retail store. They miss the fancy packaging and marketing but are otherwise, except for the marking on the cartridge body & stylus housing, exactly the same cartridges as the retail versions.
 
Thanks again to everybody who left advise! :thmbsp: I found out that my phono pre-amp is for MM so that pretty much takes the Denon out of the run and by reading some of your posts, it might not work particularly well with my TT anyway.

danj, actually the Dual 1009SK and 1019 have the same tonearm. Kent, thanks for the AT opinion on my dual. I appreciate your information. It was helpful.

Right now I'm really leaning towards the Ortofon 2M Red. I'll definitely let you guys know which way I go! Thanks again and many happy hours of vinyl listening to you all! :music:
 
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