New project: Empire 398

[muchachos]

A nice 398 came up recently on a local Craigslist site, and after waffling over whether or not I needed another turntable for a few days - you already have a perfectly good hot-rodded Thorens!- I bit the bullet and picked it up. No regrets at all after doing so. Turns out to be a 398, equipped with a 980 arm, on the original 208 deck complete with 78 rpm capabilities. The platter is dated February 21st of 1962, and the cover March 13th of the same year! The gentleman who owned it had inherited it from his stepfather, who was the original owner. As such it's in great condition mechanically and physically. There is a hole and some scuffing on the motor cover from a dust bug being attached, and some holes in the sides of the plinth from a console mounting. Other than that it's hard to fault - the bearing is smooth and quiet, the arm moves like a dream, and the motor is silent. Pics below.

Short video here:
https://imgur.com/IgX5DFe

So what's the plan for this deck? I am very impressed with it right now. The build quality is impeccable and even with the old grommets, belt, and cartridge it's an impressive unit. It currently has a Stanton 681eee mounted, which I think might have a worn out suspension based on how close to the LP surface it rides while playing. Trying to find headshell screws so I can try out a few different carts from the arsenal is a bit of a challenge - 3-48 machine screws are not quite a common size. I'll likely mount a cheap and cheerful AT3600 in there for now, and try to find a replacement stylus for the 681 down the road.

The tonearm will be kept as it works quite well and I like the aesthetic. I think there may be a bit of play along the vertical bearing - if anyone has experience adjusting these, let me know!

The existing RCA wiring works just fine, though it is obviously approaching 60 years of age. However, it mounts to the strange, non standard 5 pin connector at the tonearm base, so replacement is not quite a matter of a drop-in solution. I think the plan here, eventually, will be to use some larger, cartridge-style clips to connect the tonearm terminal to a new RCA terminal at the back of the unit.

As for the plinth - the original plinth is quite substantial-looking, even if it is in reality a hollow echo chamber. I want to keep the original look, so I am thinking I will fill it up with layers of hardwood ply cut out around the bearings and motor. This should also allow me to bolt the top plate down, which would help things a lot as it currently just rests in the original mounting brackets provided by the manufacturer. The top plate I plan to damp with rope caulk or damping sheets. I am reluctant to fill in the platter entirely as some folks on here have done, as I wonder if it might negatively effect the finely-balanced platter and put too much load on the motor. That said, I'll try to find some o-rings to put around the inner ring under the platter, as it is quite bell-like.

Any tips on polishing the finish on these things? This one's in quite nice original shape, so I'm reluctant to fully redo it, but it could use some touch ups.

Anyways - any input is welcome and thanks for checking out the project! Looking forward to seeing how we can make this rig sing.

 

[milanomike]

Good score, always wanted one of the Empires.

 

[Ilikevinyl]

Nice! That could be your Mono turntable with Mono cartridge!

 

[muchachos]

Update to this project - I have replaced the belt, grommets, and added a birch ply base to the plinth. This has filled out the gaps, added damping, mass and rigidity to the original plinth. I've noticed more detail, less smearing, and the absence of the low levels of rumble detectable before the mods. A common mod used by others on here is to add some large O-rings to the platter, dampening the cast aluminum bell, which I've also done, though there are no pictures to show for that. The grommets and belt came from Esoteric Sound, which makes for a pricey order in the Great White North, but seems to be one of very few options. The belt plays at about 33.45-33.5, so it's within spec but not quite bang on. Any tips on slowing the machine down a little, other than using the adjustment screw - which is at its limit?

But as for the rest - first a few pictures of replacing the rubber grommets, for those who may have to take on that task in the future.

Original grommets and belt:

Removed the three motor mount screws - this gunge comes off with some rubbing alcohol and a q-tip. Some early stage blu-tak damping is visible there too.

The mountings have an unthreaded spacer on the bottom held on with some thread locking compound. This has to come off to replace the grommet.

Pliers to hold the spacer plus screwdriver will break the seal pretty well.

Separated spacer

It's then a matter of putting the screw and new spacer onto the new grommet, and sealing the spacer on with some new thread locker. I used nail polish (green, of course, for greater fidelity). You can then squeeze this into the mounting holes.

Making sure to remount this spring when reassembing under the adjustable bolt.

Working on the plinth now - to begin with, let's appreciate the tasteful carpeting. The veneer peeling is visible at the back too.

Peeling this stuff off. Why the plinth has a base to begin with is beyond me - it seems most do not.

Clean plinth sitting with a few 13.5x15.5" sheets of birch ply.

The good, the bad and the ugly - what you get when you have a drill and a skilsaw, and realize you should've bought a jigsaw for the project. Ah well, it gets the job done. Not visible are some air holes in the corner near the motor for circulation.

Reassembled - cosmetically identical, but sonically a (not so) dramatic improvement!

And the last step - what to do with an old tonearm without antiskate? Well, taking inspiration from the Thorens TP11, SME, Empire 980A, and countless other tonearms which look like their antiskate mechanisms were designed by a particularly intelligent ape, I set about making a basic weight-on-string antiskate system for the old beast. Materials include a particularly attractive steel paperclip, some thread, an o-ring to protect the original base, and a washer. It seems to work quite well. I am going to replace the washer (weight 3.3 grams) with some calibration weights, giving me a bit more flexibility for adjustment, once they show up in the mail.

What remains? I may add some rope caulk in the space between the plywood and the top of the aluminum plinth for further dampening. I think I will eventually replace the original plinth as well. While Empire seems to have used solid wood for some of the plinths, mine is a veneered softwood. I am thinking that a heavy and dark plinth with square edges might look nice. A new plinth would also allow more air to get to the motor, which is obviously desirable.

Anyways - this is all to say that I am very happy with this turntable as it is. The tonearm is a great tracker, the speed stability is wonderful, without a trace of wow or flutter. It has a great sense of rhythm, so maybe there's something to the whole 'stylus drag' thesis offered by idler and high torque aficionados. If you have a chance to pick one of these up, I'd highly recommend it!

 

[adnick]

Update to this project - I have replaced the belt, grommets, and added a birch ply base to the plinth. This has filled out the gaps, added damping, mass and rigidity to the original plinth. I've noticed more detail, less smearing, and the absence of the low levels of rumble detectable before the mods. A common mod used by others on here is to add some large O-rings to the platter, dampening the cast aluminum bell, which I've also done, though there are no pictures to show for that. The grommets and belt came from Esoteric Sound, which makes for a pricey order in the Great White North, but seems to be one of very few options. The belt plays at about 33.45-33.5, so it's within spec but not quite bang on. Any tips on slowing the machine down a little, other than using the adjustment screw - which is at its limit?

But as for the rest - first a few pictures of replacing the rubber grommets, for those who may have to take on that task in the future.

Original grommets and belt:

Removed the three motor mount screws - this gunge comes off with some rubbing alcohol and a q-tip. Some early stage blu-tak damping is visible there too.

The mountings have an unthreaded spacer on the bottom held on with some thread locking compound. This has to come off to replace the grommet.

Pliers to hold the spacer plus screwdriver will break the seal pretty well.

Separated spacer

It's then a matter of putting the screw and new spacer onto the new grommet, and sealing the spacer on with some new thread locker. I used nail polish (green, of course, for greater fidelity). You can then squeeze this into the mounting holes.

Making sure to remount this spring when reassembing under the adjustable bolt.

Working on the plinth now - to begin with, let's appreciate the tasteful carpeting. The veneer peeling is visible at the back too.

Peeling this stuff off. Why the plinth has a base to begin with is beyond me - it seems most do not.

Clean plinth sitting with a few 13.5x15.5" sheets of birch ply.

The good, the bad and the ugly - what you get when you have a drill and a skilsaw, and realize you should've bought a jigsaw for the project. Ah well, it gets the job done. Not visible are some air holes in the corner near the motor for circulation.

Reassembled - cosmetically identical, but sonically a (not so) dramatic improvement!

And the last step - what to do with an old tonearm without antiskate? Well, taking inspiration from the Thorens TP11, SME, Empire 980A, and countless other tonearms which look like their antiskate mechanisms were designed by a particularly intelligent ape, I set about making a basic weight-on-string antiskate system for the old beast. Materials include a particularly attractive steel paperclip, some thread, an o-ring to protect the original base, and a washer. It seems to work quite well. I am going to replace the washer (weight 3.3 grams) with some calibration weights, giving me a bit more flexibility for adjustment, once they show up in the mail.

What remains? I may add some rope caulk in the space between the plywood and the top of the aluminum plinth for further dampening. I think I will eventually replace the original plinth as well. While Empire seems to have used solid wood for some of the plinths, mine is a veneered softwood. I am thinking that a heavy and dark plinth with square edges might look nice. A new plinth would also allow more air to get to the motor, which is obviously desirable.

Anyways - this is all to say that I am very happy with this turntable as it is. The tonearm is a great tracker, the speed stability is wonderful, without a trace of wow or flutter. It has a great sense of rhythm, so maybe there's something to the whole 'stylus drag' thesis offered by idler and high torque aficionados. If you have a chance to pick one of these up, I'd highly recommend it!

Excellent work, really impressed....always great to get these old classics up and running better than ever.

BTW Out of 14 or so tonearms only 3 have anti skate, don’t find it an issue most of the time.

Best Regards,
Andy

 

[muchachos]

BTW Out of 14 or so tonearms only 3 have anti skate, don’t find it an issue most of the time.

Aye, it's less of an issue than most manufacturers make it out to be. I am going to try the arm out with some moderate to higher compliance carts though, as I think the mass is much lower than most think it is, so I wanted to at least have the option. Right now I am running it with a conical AT3600 as I wait for the replacement in the post, so it's running without antiskate.

 

[bkatbamna]

What a great idea for anti-skating and so well executed too.