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NEW replacement for JICO SAS! (got this email from them today)

Bubbalouie said:
It's no doubt that the M97xe people are left out of any bargains, A new M97xe cartridge costs $99 from Needle Doctor. A N97xe stylus will cost you $97. Only $2 difference in cost, really? What's the advantage of buying a new cartridge over the replacement stylus? Where's the justification? Now let's look at the SAS variants. The N97xe neoSAS/S is $267 and the neoSAS/R is $467.

Those who still want to use their M97xe, the bargain for us will be the N97xVL Vivid stylus for $79.95. I may look into this after RSD Black Friday.
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Not saying what is or is not worth the money but don't compare the OEM stylus for the M97XE to a SAS. A very different listening experience. My understanding is the Vividline is a big step towards the SAS sound, but I have not heard them sided by side. All these choices for a technology (LPs & TTs) considered obsolete not so long ago is really pretty impressive. More choices = better.
 
The original SAS was underpriced, subsidized by the regular styli. My Victor Z1 SAS was $133 and the bonded AL/shibata for my 980LZ was around $159. There were other examples of the old SAS being cheaper on the same cart. But now they've gone a little too far, $467 for a M97 SAS(R) ? Is this a hollow tube ruby cantilever? I think not, but $211 for most of them is competitively priced for sapphire/MR.
neo
 
If I still had a Shure IV, mebbe. Shure IV or V, perthaps, but we are getting into MC territory at these prices and at these prices, the replaceable stylus advantage looks less so.
 
Pio1980 said:
If I still had a Shure IV, mebbe. Shure IV or V, perthaps, but we are getting into MC territory at these prices and at these prices, the replaceable stylus advantage looks less so.
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There are some MM that are more expensive than some MC, owing to the nature of the quality of their construction, not to mention that all important part of the moving system, the stylus/cantilever.

What's the cheapest MC with a tapered ruby cantilever and microridge stylus? $1k+? Or Soundsmith's retipping services starting at $300 for a simple sapphire rod attached to a decent cart body. There aren't many cheap options at this level of refinement.

I think, at this point, the difference between MC and MM and it's iterations becomes quite blurred. I've raced my SASsed up R47xt against a Denon DL-S1. Sometimes the cheapo MM won.
 
ripblade said:
There are some MM that are more expensive than some MC, owing to the nature of the quality of their construction, not to mention that all important part of the moving system, the stylus/cantilever.

What's the cheapest MC with a tapered ruby cantilever and microridge stylus? $1k+? Or Soundsmith's retipping services starting at $300 for a simple sapphire rod attached to a decent cart body. There aren't many cheap options at this level of refinement.

I think, at this point, the difference between MC and MM and it's iterations becomes quite blurred. I've raced my SASsed up R47xt against a Denon DL-S1. Sometimes the cheapo MM won.
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It looks like Shure has the best coverage for aftermarket stylii, Soundsmith ( B&O mmc, Grace F9) notwithstanding.
How would you assign the phono stages' sound quality for this comparison?
 
Pio1980 said:
It looks like Shure has the best coverage for aftermarket stylii, Soundsmith ( B&O mmc, Grace F9) notwithstanding.
How would you assign the phono stages' sound quality for this comparison?
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In my case they were the same one built into the Threshold SL-10 line stage. Loading options with it are limited, especially for MC, which limits the ability to tweak the sound. The exceedingly low inductance of the MC is a bonus offset by the need for higher gain, which no matter how it's done, will introduce compromises that can adversely affect the outcome. I think which is better theoretically becomes a toss up if you have good synergy in the mechanical system, which brings us back to the all important moving parts.

Yeah, Jico places a lot of focus on Shure for whatever reason. I wish they offered more options.
 
ripblade said:
Yeah, Jico places a lot of focus on Shure for whatever reason. I wish they offered more options.
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Shure, A/T and Grado (to a lesser extent) kind of control the bulk of the "affordable" cart market, so it is no surprise that JICO focuses on Shure styli. A/T and Grado kind of offer their own upgrade path, so there is a lesser market there, but still noteworthy.
 
I will be eager to hear the reviews when they start coming... These look to be a promising upgrade over the boron cantilevers with bonded tips. Hope the sound quality lives up to the price tag!

(Btw.... They are indeed expensive, but assuming you have an old Shure body laying around, there isn't much in the way of new cartridges in a similar price range with that kind of build quality.

Compare the sapphire model: What cartridges are available in the $211 price range? The Denon DL-110? Sure it's MC, but only HO and it's stylus is not constructed anything like this. The AT440 MLb? It has a similar stylus profile, but it's aluminum cantilever is cheaper, no doubt. The Ortofon 2M Blue? It's only elliptical. Same with the similarly priced offerings from Nagaoka. Grado Gold1? Elliptical with a bonded tip! Grado MCZ upgrade stylus? Nude tip, but aluminum cantilever.

Even NOS vintage styli can hardly be found for that. Try to find a Shure MR for less than that. Or an ADC ZLM/Ariston. Or about anything else that says HE/LC/ML/Aliptic/Stereohedron/Quadrahedron/Shibata/etc.

As far as the ruby model is concerned, there might be a few more competitive options... Hana, Sumiko, Dynavector and AT, to name a few. None of them have that kind of cantilever construction. Still, it all boils down to sound quality.

Is the ruby neo SAS better enough than the sapphire to justify its price tag? We'll have to wait and see...)

Also worthy of mention, there Was the occasional tale of catastrophic failure with the old SAS... Hope the woes of suspension failure and disappearing tips won't haunt the higher-priced new models. Is Jico offering a guarantee/warranty?
 
needlestein said:
Don't get your hopes up, either. There never was an SAS for these carts.
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Just wanted to chime in on this issue, I had emailed Jico about the Pickering/Stanton carts and here is the reply that I received:

Thank you for your interest in our styli.

Unfortunately the neoSAS components are not compatible with all stylus/cartridge types. I believe the shank piece of the Stanton/Pickering MM cartridges are too small to accommodate the tension wire, in this case.

Sincerely,
Seth Kolon / JICO

So, I guess that's why we've never had one for the Pickering/Stanton line. Figured I'd pass along the info.
 
Mikey679 said:
Just wanted to chime in on this issue, I had emailed Jico about the Pickering/Stanton carts and here is the reply that I received:

Thank you for your interest in our styli.

Unfortunately the neoSAS components are not compatible with all stylus/cartridge types. I believe the shank piece of the Stanton/Pickering MM cartridges are too small to accommodate the tension wire, in this case.

Sincerely,
Seth Kolon / JICO

So, I guess that's why we've never had one for the Pickering/Stanton line. Figured I'd pass along the info.
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Funny that they make a Shibata for them, complete with tension wire. But who am I to argue...
 
needlestein said:
Something else is at play. They make very good Shibata styli, so they know how to do it. Even the economy EVG brand, which may or may not be Jico, still makes an excellent stylus in the EVG PM4052DE aka 4606-DEG that does away with the tie wire and the crimped tube surrounding the suspension donut.
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I did find it an interesting response, I haven't heard one of their Shibatas in a Pickering or Stanton so I don't know how good they are but I know the SAS sounds real nice and tracks beautifully, shame they won't go into making one for these great sounding carts!
 
needlestein said:
I have one for the XSV/3000 and it is excellent. Sounds as good as the original, just needs 1.5g to track as well instead of the 1g the original needs. So that tells me right there that they are pushing their limits with the materials and designs they are using. It seems pretty obvious to me that they could do it if they wanted to, and a great job. But for some reason, they have decided that that lucrative replacement business isn't something they want to pursue. There must be a reason. It is hard to imagine that they haven't figured out how to reverse engineer it. Walco was able to produce amazing replacements with conical tips--something even Stanton/Pickering didn't do.
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Nice, I may need to look into one of those Jico Shibatas for my XSV-5000, it has the D5000 stylus but it has started to ride a little low. I'm guessing the suspension is starting to wear and trying to find a replacement D5000 is pretty much impossible these days unless you have tons of cash laying around for when one does come up on ebay.
 
"they have decided that that lucrative replacement business isn't something they want to pursue."
I'm going to suggest that if there was money in doing Pickering/ Stanton SAS's; they do it.
So there might be more to this than we know.
Fully agree that I'd love to try one if it existed.
 
needlestein said:
Look at the thread about sagging cantilevers. WD-40 in tiny amounts can work magic, but attempt at your own risk. I can speak for WD-40 rejuvenating a very saggy D1200. Works like new now and has since I did it a couple years ago.
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Well, chalk up another success story for the WD-40 method. I decided to give it a try seeing as I really had nothing to lose with the cantilever sagging so low. Gave it a little paintbrush of WD-40 and let it sit overnight, just put it back on my cartridge and it's holding up really well right now, sitting much higher and seems to be staying put for now.
 
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