I'm sure he meant EL34. EL84 would never work in this amp, even if you used adapters.
New Willsenton R8 - What Tubes to choose when purchasing?
- Thread starter NTShadowPT
- Start date
I was wondering how that would work...thanks.
Yea 34s, I also have an EL84 amp and got it mixed up.
Jon S
Super Member
I went through a lot of tubes on my R8 "MK II". My favorite tubes are the reissued Mullard EL34 ($180/quad) and the Psvane EL34-Z (newly released, only available on eBay, $180/quad). The expensive ($330) Psvane EL34-PH is overpriced IMHO. I don't particularly care for the KT-88s, they are more expensive (~$400/quad) and sound a bit bright (I tried the Gold Lion KT-88, Psvane KT88-T MK II and Psvane KT-88-Z Natural Sound). the OEM Willsenton tubes are sourced from different companies. I purchased two R8s and one set came with relabeled Psvane KT88 HiFi tubes ($180/quad)?, I could not figure the source of the other one.
For the front end, I like the Sylvania 6SL7-WGT Gold Brand (tubes have brown base) or the MELZ 6N9S vintage Russian tubes (I think the black base versions are under-rated, they sound pretty good for the price ($30/pair) on eBay, the Mil-Spec metal based tubes are about $125/each). I must say that the OEM Willsenton 6SL7 (rebranded Reflektor 6H9C tubes) tubes are not bad, not really good but not bad for $30/pair.
For the 6SN7s, I really like the Sylvania 6SN7-W and the Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231 for their warmth. Unfortunately the prices for these tubes have gone crazy. I bought my 6SN7-Ws earlier this year for about $50/tube and now they are going for $100-150/each. The 6SN7GT/VT231s were about $25/each a year ago and now looking at $100/each. The Tung-Sol 6SN7-GT "Mouse Ears" are pretty good at about $75/each. The OEM WIllsenton 6SN7s are relabeled NEVZ 6H8C tubes, cheap at $30/quad
If you want a cleaner, crisp sound, the reissued Tung-Sol 6SN7-GTB are reasonable ($140/trio). Do not consider any JJ pre-amp tubes, they sound too bright and harsh, although Stephe at Skunkie swears by the JJ EL34-L tubes ($100/quad).
What setup am I listening to now? Psvane EL34-Zs are breaking in since I just got them. They sound pretty good with good imaging. I might go back to the Mullard EL34s, they sound more musical with good imaging but the Psvanes are a smidgen better in this regard, but they are not as musical.
The front end tubes are the Sylvania 6SL7-WGT Golds and the Sylvania 6SN7-W tubes.
BTW, I linked all the tubes in the post for references only so you can check them out. I am not implying that all the linked sellers are reputable or reliable. You have to do your own research. Just remember to buy matched power tubes. The pre-amp tubes should also be matched and the triodes are matched within 10%, even better if they are 5% or less. Using unmatched tubes can cause premature wear and even cause an imbalance in the sound, making one channel louder than the other, remember, the R8 does not have a balance control.
For the front end, I like the Sylvania 6SL7-WGT Gold Brand (tubes have brown base) or the MELZ 6N9S vintage Russian tubes (I think the black base versions are under-rated, they sound pretty good for the price ($30/pair) on eBay, the Mil-Spec metal based tubes are about $125/each). I must say that the OEM Willsenton 6SL7 (rebranded Reflektor 6H9C tubes) tubes are not bad, not really good but not bad for $30/pair.
For the 6SN7s, I really like the Sylvania 6SN7-W and the Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231 for their warmth. Unfortunately the prices for these tubes have gone crazy. I bought my 6SN7-Ws earlier this year for about $50/tube and now they are going for $100-150/each. The 6SN7GT/VT231s were about $25/each a year ago and now looking at $100/each. The Tung-Sol 6SN7-GT "Mouse Ears" are pretty good at about $75/each. The OEM WIllsenton 6SN7s are relabeled NEVZ 6H8C tubes, cheap at $30/quad
If you want a cleaner, crisp sound, the reissued Tung-Sol 6SN7-GTB are reasonable ($140/trio). Do not consider any JJ pre-amp tubes, they sound too bright and harsh, although Stephe at Skunkie swears by the JJ EL34-L tubes ($100/quad).
What setup am I listening to now? Psvane EL34-Zs are breaking in since I just got them. They sound pretty good with good imaging. I might go back to the Mullard EL34s, they sound more musical with good imaging but the Psvanes are a smidgen better in this regard, but they are not as musical.
The front end tubes are the Sylvania 6SL7-WGT Golds and the Sylvania 6SN7-W tubes.
BTW, I linked all the tubes in the post for references only so you can check them out. I am not implying that all the linked sellers are reputable or reliable. You have to do your own research. Just remember to buy matched power tubes. The pre-amp tubes should also be matched and the triodes are matched within 10%, even better if they are 5% or less. Using unmatched tubes can cause premature wear and even cause an imbalance in the sound, making one channel louder than the other, remember, the R8 does not have a balance control.
Jon S
Super Member
I just purchased the new Psvane Treasure Series of tubes for my R8, the Psvane EL34-Z and CV181-Z tubes for about $400 total. I must say I am duly impressed with these tubes, they sound smooth with a better soundfield than the Mullards.
I am now contemplating purchasing the Psvane ART Series of tubes, the 6CA7-T3, 6SL7-T3 and CV181-T3 tubes. The ART series is Psvane's TOTL tubes and unfortunately, the asking price reflects that. The complete set of ART tubes for my R8 will set me back about $900, more than what I paid for my R8. I am not sure whether I should buy the tubes because of the price as well as it is overkill for the amplifier. Another question I have is the reliability of Psvane's tubes. I have read some posts where the tubes fail with less than a year of use.
I should be saving my money for the new Galion TS34 amplifier, the EL34 version of the highly regarded TS120 amplifier.
I am now contemplating purchasing the Psvane ART Series of tubes, the 6CA7-T3, 6SL7-T3 and CV181-T3 tubes. The ART series is Psvane's TOTL tubes and unfortunately, the asking price reflects that. The complete set of ART tubes for my R8 will set me back about $900, more than what I paid for my R8. I am not sure whether I should buy the tubes because of the price as well as it is overkill for the amplifier. Another question I have is the reliability of Psvane's tubes. I have read some posts where the tubes fail with less than a year of use.
I should be saving my money for the new Galion TS34 amplifier, the EL34 version of the highly regarded TS120 amplifier.
Jon S
Super Member
So far, these are my observations with the Psvane ART tubes with my Willsenton R8...
With the Psvane CV-181 Treasure Series replacing the Psvane 6SN7-T3 ART series led to a slight reduction of deep bass. The ART 6SN7-T3 has also a tighter bass response. This is unusual because most observations noted that the 6SN7s do not affect the sound in the R8, but this one does.
Replacing the Psvane 6SL7-T3 ART Series with a MELZ 6N9S led to a slight reduction in focus but the MELZ has a tad more air than the Psvane.
I replaced the Psvane 6CA7-T3 ART Series with a matched quad of reissued Mullard EL34 tubes keeping the Psvane 6SN7-T3/6SL7-T3 led to only a smidgen of bass reduction and tightness but the music was a bit cleaner and with a smidgen more clarity than the Psvane. I cannot fault the Mullards in any way because they are 1/3 less costly than the Psvane tubes. I have found the Mullards to be the best EL34s sonically until the ART tubes release.
I also tried the ART Series front tubes with the expensive Psvane Legend EL34-PH tubes and find that combination lackluster. The sound had clarity but the deep bass completely disappeared. TBH, I have yet to find any combination with the Psvane EL34-PH to sound good.
Using the complete Psvane ART tubes in the R8 right now is the best combination of tubes i have heard on my R8. Remember though, YMMV as my setup will likely be different than yours. I am using an old Sony DVP-NS9000ES DVD Player as my source (which I find to be a lot more musical than newer players or DACs) and a pair of Polk Audio Reserve R700 tower speakers. These speakers go down real low and can be a bit tubby in the bass. The Willsenton R8 is also an unusual amp in that the power tubes do not contribute a change in the sound as much as the front-end tubes, especially with the 6SL7s...
The Psvane ART tubes really enhances the bass output of the speakers and gets rid of most of the tubbiness. Kick drums hit with authority with the new tubes. Bass guitars have tighter thumps.
Overall, I give the Psvane ART tubes a big thumbs up.
I can hardly wait til my Psvane KT-88-T3 ART tubes come in.
On a side note, I tested all the ART tubes with my MaxiMatcher tube testers. This is my results:
Psvane 6CA7-T3 ART (box shows tubes were measured at 35 mA)
Plate Voltage for the four tubes: 31.1/31.8/33.4/35.5
This is a decent but not a good spread
Psvane 6SN7-T3 ART (Psvane measured the tubes at 22 mA)
Tube 1 gain 18.3/19.3
Tube 2 gain: 18.7/19.3
Psvane measured the tubes at 22 mA which is unusually high, most 6SL7s test at 19 mA.
Psvane 6SL7-T3 ART (psvane measured the tubes at 95 mA)
Tube 1 gain: 69.4.64.4
Tube 2 gain: 70.5/61.6
The 6SL7s were disappointing, tube 2 had a variance of 15%, greater than the recommended 10% minimum by vendors. Also, Psvane measured the tubes at 95 mA which is unrealistically high, most 6SL7s test at 70-75 mA.
I find that Psvane claim of balanced or matched tubes to be often exaggerated. My four "matched" EL34-PH tubes are measured at 24-31 mA, a pretty big spread.
With the Psvane CV-181 Treasure Series replacing the Psvane 6SN7-T3 ART series led to a slight reduction of deep bass. The ART 6SN7-T3 has also a tighter bass response. This is unusual because most observations noted that the 6SN7s do not affect the sound in the R8, but this one does.
Replacing the Psvane 6SL7-T3 ART Series with a MELZ 6N9S led to a slight reduction in focus but the MELZ has a tad more air than the Psvane.
I replaced the Psvane 6CA7-T3 ART Series with a matched quad of reissued Mullard EL34 tubes keeping the Psvane 6SN7-T3/6SL7-T3 led to only a smidgen of bass reduction and tightness but the music was a bit cleaner and with a smidgen more clarity than the Psvane. I cannot fault the Mullards in any way because they are 1/3 less costly than the Psvane tubes. I have found the Mullards to be the best EL34s sonically until the ART tubes release.
I also tried the ART Series front tubes with the expensive Psvane Legend EL34-PH tubes and find that combination lackluster. The sound had clarity but the deep bass completely disappeared. TBH, I have yet to find any combination with the Psvane EL34-PH to sound good.
Using the complete Psvane ART tubes in the R8 right now is the best combination of tubes i have heard on my R8. Remember though, YMMV as my setup will likely be different than yours. I am using an old Sony DVP-NS9000ES DVD Player as my source (which I find to be a lot more musical than newer players or DACs) and a pair of Polk Audio Reserve R700 tower speakers. These speakers go down real low and can be a bit tubby in the bass. The Willsenton R8 is also an unusual amp in that the power tubes do not contribute a change in the sound as much as the front-end tubes, especially with the 6SL7s...
The Psvane ART tubes really enhances the bass output of the speakers and gets rid of most of the tubbiness. Kick drums hit with authority with the new tubes. Bass guitars have tighter thumps.
Overall, I give the Psvane ART tubes a big thumbs up.
I can hardly wait til my Psvane KT-88-T3 ART tubes come in.
On a side note, I tested all the ART tubes with my MaxiMatcher tube testers. This is my results:
Psvane 6CA7-T3 ART (box shows tubes were measured at 35 mA)
Plate Voltage for the four tubes: 31.1/31.8/33.4/35.5
This is a decent but not a good spread
Psvane 6SN7-T3 ART (Psvane measured the tubes at 22 mA)
Tube 1 gain 18.3/19.3
Tube 2 gain: 18.7/19.3
Psvane measured the tubes at 22 mA which is unusually high, most 6SL7s test at 19 mA.
Psvane 6SL7-T3 ART (psvane measured the tubes at 95 mA)
Tube 1 gain: 69.4.64.4
Tube 2 gain: 70.5/61.6
The 6SL7s were disappointing, tube 2 had a variance of 15%, greater than the recommended 10% minimum by vendors. Also, Psvane measured the tubes at 95 mA which is unrealistically high, most 6SL7s test at 70-75 mA.
I find that Psvane claim of balanced or matched tubes to be often exaggerated. My four "matched" EL34-PH tubes are measured at 24-31 mA, a pretty big spread.
Jon S
Super Member
Well, my R8 right channel failed. After troubleshooting, I figured out the right Sylvania 6SN7-GT "Bad boy" failed. When I got the tubes, that particular tube measured a gain of 19.8 and 20.3 with about 1900 Mhos. I retested the tube and it measured 19.8/14.5 and 1900/1400 Mhos. I kinda figured it might be the tube because of the filaments on the top of the tube seemed dimmer than the other, normally both filaments are pretty well lit.
On a side note, I have been burning in the Psvane ART Series 6CA7-T3 tubes. At first, i did not like them because they sounded flat. I now got about 200 hours on the tubes and they sound markedly better. The sound is smoother but the soundstage is a lot better. But the tubes are very particular with the matching of the front tubes. Using NOS Tung-Sol made it sound clean but with a compressed soundstage, Using RCA smoked-glass tubes made the sound too warm, almost dull. Using Ken-Rad black glass made a slight improvement but using the Sylvania VT229/VT231 tubes made them sing. I tried using the Sylvania 6SN7W (both black and metal base) and 6SL7-WGT (red base) but they were not as good as the VT229/VT231 tubes.
On a side note, I have been burning in the Psvane ART Series 6CA7-T3 tubes. At first, i did not like them because they sounded flat. I now got about 200 hours on the tubes and they sound markedly better. The sound is smoother but the soundstage is a lot better. But the tubes are very particular with the matching of the front tubes. Using NOS Tung-Sol made it sound clean but with a compressed soundstage, Using RCA smoked-glass tubes made the sound too warm, almost dull. Using Ken-Rad black glass made a slight improvement but using the Sylvania VT229/VT231 tubes made them sing. I tried using the Sylvania 6SN7W (both black and metal base) and 6SL7-WGT (red base) but they were not as good as the VT229/VT231 tubes.
Great to see this thread here. I've been neglecting my R8, which I really liked when it was new. Bought a full complement of nifty, alternate tubes and haven't even tried them out.
When I do, I think I'd better use the variac for the initial power-power-up. And I'd better hurry, as we had several 95° and 96° days in April here already, and summer isn't far away.
A least it hasn't been collecting dust:
When I do, I think I'd better use the variac for the initial power-power-up. And I'd better hurry, as we had several 95° and 96° days in April here already, and summer isn't far away.
A least it hasn't been collecting dust:
Those coin base 6SL7 do sound nice!