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Next move: new turntable or cartridge?

ToneAlive

ToneAlive

Active Member
Hey AKers, I have a nice sound system now including a dynaco st-70, crown ps-400, yaqin ms-12b, and some nice vintage speakers. However, the week link in the chain is probably my turntable and cartridge. Right now the turntable I use is a Stanton T60 and the cartridge I'm using is an Audio Technica AT92E.

What would be the better next upgrade, the turntable or the cartridge? What if I wanted to upgrade both and spend no more than $500 total? Am I going to hear significant improvements over what I am using now if I make either of these purchases? If so, what are the recommendations for a turntable and cartridge in my budget? Thanks in advance for any advise!
 
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I think you should upgrade your turntable.

I think a nice Technics SL-1700 (or 1600 or 1800) with a brand new Shure M97XE is a really tough combo to beat and could be had with very little effort for less than $150.
 
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The Stanton has a straight tone arm I assume? (Some of their dj models have exchangable S/straight tone arms).

The geometry of the the straight arms is not correct (on purpose), to get better tracking for turntablists.
I'd go for a table with a correct arm geometry. :yes:

There probably are upgrade styli for the AT92E body (I'm no AT connaiseur, so which one to go for.. :dunno:)
 
The Stanton needs to be replaced first, then upgrade the cartridge. Most of these have straight arms with no offset, on those use conical styli only. Second the Technics recommendation, SL-1500, 1600 and 1700 are nice options, especially so the Mk II models. SL-D1, D2, and D3 are also nice as is the SL-Q1, Q2, and Q3 models which are good bargains in nice shape.
 
I would replace the table first also. There are tons of choices with a $500 price range. Personally I would keep the cart and spend the 5 bills on the table if possible. Now sometimes if you go to the used market you might get a remarkably good cartridge in the package.

There are a lot of choices, but you haven't stated a preference for automatic or manual tables. Personally I am a fan of manual, and so my recommendations will be those kind.

Lots of people love the Technics 1200, or the SP25 and 15 series. The Sp25 in a heavy base can be very good, far better than I would have thought.

There are some excellent belt drive options. Perhaps one of the best values for the dollar is the Systemdeck IIXE. You may be able to find an Ariston RD11 in your budget, and it often comes with a good arm. If your patient a Conrad Johnson Sonegraphe will pop up. Or look for a Walker 55, they are a nice table. If lucky you can sometimes find an early VPI 19, or a 19 Junior in that price range.

Automatics, well I got no idea.

I great table is going to get a surprising amount of performance out of a budget cartridge. This is a bit of the Linn philosophy which goes table first then arm then cartridge. More than a bit of truth to this idea.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
... [A] great table is going to get a surprising amount of performance out of a budget cartridge. This is a bit of the Linn philosophy which goes table first then arm then cartridge. More than a bit of truth to this idea. ...
Click to expand...

I agree with Mister Pig's point and will add my vote to upgrade the turntable first. Today's best budget cartridges, including the Grado Black or Green, the Shure M97xE and the Red Ed, play way above their price points when installed on a decent turntable.
 
The turntable definitely (there is an echo in here...)

But that cartridge is OK.

The AT92e is a p-mount (so make sure you keep the adapter with the cartridge!), and can be upgraded with a stylus upgrade to shibata / line contact. (Shibata, HyperEliptical, Line Contact, Vivid Line - all much of a muchness, its the next notch or two up from the eliptical styli).

BUT - The AT92 is a high compliance cartridge and the styli tend to be high compliance (p-mounts should normally be around 20cu) - which means they suit lightweight arms best.

If your new TT has a heavier arm, the AT92 might be OK (depending on how heavy of course) - or you might need a cartridge with a lower compliance.

The AT95 series comes to mind as a good budget cartridge with lower compliance - same price bracket as the AT92, and you can find Shibata/LC styli for this one too.

(These styli tend to be around $80 - a cartridge with one of these styli tends to be $90-$100)

So start by shopping for a new TT - worry about the cartridge later.

If shopping used/"vintage" - you may score a much more upmarket cartridge - many people have picked up V15's on $20 TT's - it happens.

bye for now

David
 
My opinion: Look for a good vintage turntable like a Pioneer PL12D. They were and are over-achievers. I've seen them on that auction sight many of times. Install a Denon DL110 and you're ready to go!
To bad Denon discontinued the DL160 but the 110 is a very good cart.
 
wow, that's surprising, I'm glad I asked this question. I would have thought that the cartridge would have been a much more crucial component. Well, awesome, turntable first it is.

A lot of love for vintage techniques! That's cool, that makes it pretty easy.

Mister Pig: I would probably prefer a manual turntable as I don't see the need for an automatic one.

Any brands or things to stay away from??
 
ToneAlive said:
wow, that's surprising, I'm glad I asked this question. I would have thought that the cartridge would have been a much more crucial component. Well, awesome, turntable first it is.

A lot of love for vintage techniques! That's cool, that makes it pretty easy.

Mister Pig: I would probably prefer a manual turntable as I don't see the need for an automatic one.

Any brands or things to stay away from??
Click to expand...

Are you able to hand cue? .......... :smoke:
 
The best Technics manual turntables are the professional SP line intended for broadcast and high end audiophile use. They have separate motor unit, tonearm or tonearms, and mounting plinth. And tend towards pricey but worth it. I use the SP-25 myself as daily fare.
 
marmorin: I have slipped a few times, but I think I can handle it!

KentTeffeteller: Cool, but I think that is going to be a bit much.
 
When shopping "vintage" there will be no price difference between auto and manual...

The auto's are usually cheaper if anything!

Remember you can always ignore the auto mechanism and hand cue regardless.

Most of the Auto TT's are a bit more complicated to service due to the arm movement mechanism (exception are servo armed tables - where the mechanics are very simple but the electronics can be complicated!)

Start looking around at what is available at your budget level - then ask for advice!

There are lots and lots of great turntables to be found out there for not very much $$

Also don't make assumptions about arm types, wood vs plastic vs metal, automatic vs manual..... you may miss a gem!

NOTE: many of us are part of various religions and will provide completely biased and bigoted advice.... this will usually be of the genre:
don't bother with anything but a belt drive / SL1200's are the best thing since sliced bread
Linear trackers are always crabwalkers & flawed / stick with pivoted manual arms
All the best TT's are suspended
Get a MC cartridge if you are serious about it
etc... etc...
Always treat our advice with a little grain of salt ....(well at least work out which cult the speaker belongs to so you know where he is coming from!):D
 
marcmorin said:
Are you able to hand cue? .......... :smoke:
Click to expand...

A leading question from a leading advocate of the venerable AR XA. The original AR is a classic design that can deliver very high performance with a well-matched cartridge and a bit of tweaking to the arm. I still have the one I bought in 1974; it's sitting peacefully in its carton, waiting for me to abandon my infatuation with Grado cartridges (which can hum in an AR) and put it back in my main system.
 
Get thee a nice vintage P mount table. They are often less expensive that their standard mount brethren. Keep the cartridge.
 
Let the TT Jihad begin....Dr Tinear launches a pre-emptive strike in favour of the sprung-beltrdives....

A flanking attack by BrocLuno's p-mountian cavalry....

In terms of value for money - I will support BrocLuno's suggestion - p-mounts are currently out of fashion and therefore fantastic value for money.
You already have a p-mount cartridge... and you will probably score a second one with the TT...
(DLaloum's artillery up on the hill opens up in support of the p-mountians)

bye for now

David
 
Thanks guys. I have seen so many positive comments on the technics tables I think I will probably end up getting one of those if I see a good one for a good price, and since they seem to be pretty available, but I am still undecided. Should I get a base for it as well?
 
What about a quartz vs servo control system? If I went with one of the technics SL's, between the model numbers 1800 and 1200, I notice that most of them seem to have "MK" versions as well. So the lower the number and the MK versions are the better ones. But what is better, to have a lower number that is not the MK version, or a higher number that is the MK version?
 
Servo control was the system used before quartz locking I believe... they both work well if all is fine with the electronics!

I'm not a technics guy - but somewhere out there (having trouble finding the link) there is a list of all the technics TT's along with their specifications, and their original retail price when new.

Technics were the inventors of the p-mount - and had a number of excellent p-mount TT's (parting shot :uzi: )

I don't know about mk but the Sl1200 family had the original series, and then the Mark II series that replaced it.

One of the main differences is the Mark II tonearm, which has adjustable VTA (tonearm height) - and can also take some aftermarket upgrades (the most important of which would be the KABUSA damping trough in my opinion)

There are a number of vendors out there making upgrades/mods for this series of tables - usually advertised for SL1200 but many of these can fit the other TT's in the series... so worth talking to those vendors and checking out their websites...

http://www.kabusa.com
http://www.soundhifi.com/sl1200/index.htm


(The p-Mountians, and suspended-beltians beat a hasty retreat defeated by the Technics SL fanatics)

The Technics TT's are not the place to find the best value - they are too well known for that, and there is competition for them.

But there are lots of good TT's in that family

bye for now

David
 
ToneAlive said:
What about a quartz vs servo control system? If I went with one of the technics SL's, between the model numbers 1800 and 1200, I notice that most of them seem to have "MK" versions as well. So the lower the number and the MK versions are the better ones. But what is better, to have a lower number that is not the MK version, or a higher number that is the MK version?
Click to expand...
MK IIs all have quartz locking, whereas the MK1s were all servo drives. Generally the MKIs are cheaper than the later ones. Details here: http://www.vintagetechnics.info/menu.htm
 
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