Norman Lab model 9's

[SuperToaster]

Hello AK noob here, so I got a pair of Norman Laboratories model 9's for free a few days ago. They both work and all the woofers appear to be original and in good condition and as I research them im finding out that they're quite rare. If these were a regular set of speakers I found at a thrift store or garage sale I would have taken them apart and gone through them twice already but I felt like I should consult someone of higher knowledge on these speakers then I have before doing anything. So my questions are, would you recommend any "house keeping" with these speakers or should I leave them alone? Does anyone know the specs of these (just out of curiosity not like it matters)? and not like I would ever sells these (as they are replacing zenith allegro 3000's as daily drivers) but what are the value of these?
Ill work on getting pictures up soon, thank you.

 

[Kahoona]

Hello Toaster and happy new year! Those are indeed something special and deserve proper care. The first thing is not to do anything that would change them irreversibly. You probably would not do that anyway but I have to mention it. If they are the older ones then you have paper woofers and rubber surrounds. If the surrounds are still firmly attached then you are good to go and can leave them be. If you have the newer ones then the cones are clear and the surrounds foam. If the foams arent torn yet then it is up to you whether you replace them. When they do year don't play them or risk voice coil and or spider damage. At this age the capacitors in the crossovers may be deteriorated. I'd take a look and replace any electrolytic ones (or old paper if any) I don't know what these have in there. You could replace all with film caps which may be overkill but I do it.
If you have the dark cabinets I'd use Feed and Wax on them unless they are damaged and need more. If they are the oak ones then you can use a decent paste wax (I use Minwax) or Feed and Wax. The Feed and Wax might darken the oak slightly but it does lighten up over a few months so I use it anyway. These things are meant to bring them back to their original state. There are other things that you can do too. Post some pics of the speakers and drivers and I am sure you will get more advice.Have fun. Enjoy the project and the pride that comes from restringing these and post lots of pictures. We love pictures and we can advise along the way.
Rob

 

[SuperToaster]

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Ok here are some pictures, my only concern was the yellow stuff on the woofer I think its just dried glue but not sure

 

[crispycircuit]

I'd like to see a crossover schematic to see what is in series or parallel.... Great find!

 

[SuperToaster]

Hello Toaster and happy new year! Those are indeed something special and deserve proper care. The first thing is not to do anything that would change them irreversibly. You probably would not do that anyway but I have to mention it. If they are the older ones then you have paper woofers and rubber surrounds. If the surrounds are still firmly attached then you are good to go and can leave them be. If you have the newer ones then the cones are clear and the surrounds foam. If the foams arent torn yet then it is up to you whether you replace them. When they do year don't play them or risk voice coil and or spider damage. At this age the capacitors in the crossovers may be deteriorated. I'd take a look and replace any electrolytic ones (or old paper if any) I don't know what these have in there. You could replace all with film caps which may be overkill but I do it.
If you have the dark cabinets I'd use Feed and Wax on them unless they are damaged and need more. If they are the oak ones then you can use a decent paste wax (I use Minwax) or Feed and Wax. The Feed and Wax might darken the oak slightly but it does lighten up over a few months so I use it anyway. These things are meant to bring them back to their original state. There are other things that you can do too. Post some pics of the speakers and drivers and I am sure you will get more advice.Have fun. Enjoy the project and the pride that comes from restringing these and post lots of pictures. We love pictures and we can advise along the way.
Rob

Thanks for the advise:thmbsp:

 

[drbiggles]

Wow! I'm not familiar with them, but I would love to get my hands on a pair. Especially to make the enclosures glow! What a stunning pair of speakers.

Biggles

 

[gbroot]

I've got the 11's, little brother to the 9's. The Norman's are well regarded acoustic suspension speakers. The company was started by some engineering students in the early 70's from the University of Oklahoma (Norman, Ok). It survived up to the late 90's with a couple of ownership changes over the years. I am very impressed with their quality and sound. I really don't know the value of the 9's. Their pretty rare. Probably best if you pose the question of value over in the dollars and cents forum. Welcome to AK!

Cheers!

 

[marloubow]

Rob,
Welcome to AK!

You've got some real keepers there. If your looking for speakers that you can be happy with for a while, these are them. But they do require some juice to make them really sing.

I've restored 2 pair of model 10's, a pair of model 83's and a pair of model 9's. Mainly new caps in the xover, grill cloth and a surround or two.
All have moved on except for the model 9's, which I doubt I'll ever sell.

As you can see in the photo below the two driver types that kahoona mentioned. I've since replaced the poly cone drivers with paper and rubber to bring them back to original.

I'm fairly certain that your xover will look very similar to mine.

There are some real dedicated NL followers here and good info in past threads.

Where abouts are you located? These were a fairly regional speaker and I'm always curious as to how far they travel.

Enjoy them

Martin

 

[SuperToaster]

Rob,
Welcome to AK!

You've got some real keepers there. If your looking for speakers that you can be happy with for a while, these are them. But they do require some juice to make them really sing.

I've restored 2 pair of model 10's, a pair of model 83's and a pair of model 9's. Mainly new caps in the xover, grill cloth and a surround or two.
All have moved on except for the model 9's, which I doubt I'll ever sell.

As you can see in the photo below the two driver types that kahoona mentioned. I've since replaced the poly cone drivers with paper and rubber to bring them back to original.

I'm fairly certain that your xover will look very similar to mine.

There are some real dedicated NL followers here and good info in past threads.

Where abouts are you located? These were a fairly regional speaker and I'm always curious as to how far they travel.

Enjoy them

Martin

Im driving them with a Nikko 8085 thats 65 wpc, is that enough? They sound excellent as it is but this is the first time I ever had a high end speaker so I could be missing something.

Oh ya and im in Cleveland and I got them from my uncle who lived in downtown Cleveland who got them from helping someone move in Cleveland

 

[avguytx]

Welcome to AK, SuperToaster, and welcome to the Norman Lab Model 9 club! You have the earlier version of the 9's with the rubber surrounds so you won't have any "foam rot" problems there. They are an awesome pair of speakers and my 9's have been my main speakers since I picked them up a little over 3 years ago. I had to refoam the 6 woofers as they are the poly cone versions but that wasn't anything major. All I've done to mine is recap the crossover network (30uf total capacitors) and change out the push speaker terminals to banana style binding posts. Oh, and I bypassed those crappy circuit breakers (here's a thread on that, the posts, and caps) which really opened them up as those breakers were the worst part in the signal chain and are prone to dropping out sound as sound passed through and you end up with no highs or bass in one speaker or another....it drove me crazy!

I also had new glass tops made for them, recovered the grills, and oiled down the cabinets. Other than that, they just get listened to. You should be ok with 65 wpc on them but they have no problem with more power on them if you're so inclined. I'm running a highly modified Carver M-1.0t MkII amp (about 400 wpc) on mine and I hardly ever make the blue LED power lights dance on the amp. But if you can give them more power some day, they won't mind it at all.

Also, here's another thread when I started on the Model 9's. Hope this helps some. Enjoy!

 

[analogguyinadig]

I once had a pair of those which were re-badged as Project/one speakers. They are one of the few speakers I regret selling.

 

[SuperToaster]

Welcome to AK, SuperToaster, and welcome to the Norman Lab Model 9 club! You have the earlier version of the 9's with the rubber surrounds so you won't have any "foam rot" problems there. They are an awesome pair of speakers and my 9's have been my main speakers since I picked them up a little over 3 years ago. I had to refoam the 6 woofers as they are the poly cone versions but that wasn't anything major. All I've done to mine is recap the crossover network (30uf total capacitors) and change out the push speaker terminals to banana style binding posts. Oh, and I bypassed those crappy circuit breakers (here's a thread on that, the posts, and caps) which really opened them up as those breakers were the worst part in the signal chain and are prone to dropping out sound as sound passed through and you end up with no highs or bass in one speaker or another....it drove me crazy!

I also had new glass tops made for them, recovered the grills, and oiled down the cabinets. Other than that, they just get listened to. You should be ok with 65 wpc on them but they have no problem with more power on them if you're so inclined. I'm running a highly modified Carver M-1.0t MkII amp (about 400 wpc) on mine and I hardly ever make the blue LED power lights dance on the amp. But if you can give them more power some day, they won't mind it at all.

Also, here's another thread when I started on the Model 9's. Hope this helps some. Enjoy!

Hey avguytx, when I first got the 9's and googled them your threads were the only thing that came up of detailed information on them and you seemed to be pretty knowledgeable on them so I when I saw your post I was pretty happy. So I have some question for you, first off I took out the front woofer for the first time today and there was a bunch of insulation or whatever that stuff is and I noticed it in some of the pics in your other thread (like I said before these are my first high end speaker so im a little bit out of my league here so sorry for these questions) but should I keep it, throw it away, or replace it? Do my model have the circuit breaker because the buttons arent on the back? I plan on recapping the crossover but the recaps ive done in the past were very simple done by following a guide with links to get everything, so would you mind linking the caps you bought I can figure the rest out from your threads? and is there any real sound improvement with putting the banana plug binding post? Thanks

 

[avguytx]

You won't hear any increase in sound quality in changing the connectors out and it's not something you even have to do. I just did it because of making it easier for swapping speakers around. Leave the insulation in the cabinet, too. Yours don't have the circuit breakers; they have a single fuse instead. All I would do there is just make sure the contacts on the fuse holder and fuse are clean and making good contact. I wouldn't worry as much about changing it out or bypassing it. As far as caps go, Parts Express and Madisound are the two most used places for me. Madisound primarily because they have more choice in Solen caps and their prices are typically better than PE. But, the Dayton caps from PE are good, too, as are some other brands out there like Sonicap. I'd attach some links but I'm on my phone and not on my laptop.

 

[indyhawg]

Congrats on the find. I picked up a pair of Model 9s last spring. There is a great group of owners here on AK who were very helpful to me when I acquired mine. I seriously doubt if I ever sell mine.

 

[SuperToaster]

Ok so heres the crossover, like I said before I've only done simple recap while following a guide so I have no clue what caps to get so help would be very much appreciated.

 

[coonmanx]

A light bulb in a crossover, huh?

 

[coonmanx]

They have some nice speakers. Just saw a pair of 82s on the Bay. Philips tweeter and all on the 82s.

 

[avguytx]

Looks like you'll only need a single 15uf capacitor in each speaker so that will be an easy upgrade...and economical. Those black caps with the red ends aren't too good in their older age for sure.

The light bulb is in there to disapate extra energy and draw it away from the tweeter thus saving it. It's still used today in car stereo components for some companies to aid in less warranty returns on tweeters.

 

[SuperToaster]

Looks like you'll only need a single 15uf capacitor in each speaker so that will be an easy upgrade...and economical. Those black caps with the red ends aren't too good in their older age for sure.

The light bulb is in there to disapate extra energy and draw it away from the tweeter thus saving it. It's still used today in car stereo components for some companies to aid in less warranty returns on tweeters.

again noob question but do the voltage rating and tolerance matter?

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I've heard about Normans being a rare sort of speaker that sets itself apart. But what kind of sound do they have? How would you describe them? What do they remind you of in terms of other speakers? If Ihad to guess, I'd guess they were a cross between Frazier and EV? Am I close here? Or way-off? Just shootin' in the dark here...