Not Another turntable!!!! Empire 598

[BillWojo]

I've got some NIB tuning capacitor gearbox drives from old National HRO receivers that are made of pot metal, these are literally crumbling into chunks...of course these things were made back in the 30's and 40's, but metal shouldn't just disintegrate.

If you do a search on "pot metal" it is named quite well. The main alloy is zinc but there is a lot of other metals blended into the "pot". It's one of the reasons that some pot metal holds up decently and other pot metal crumbles.
Unlike most metal alloys that have a strict composition in the make up, pot metal was what ever they had on hand it seems. Some companies had tighter quality control and aside from minor corrosion the parts aged fairly well. I believe Empire was pretty good with it as we don't see reports of the TT crumbling with simple handling.
How it was stored is a major factor as well. Left in a damp basement or garage is when your going to see the worst damage.
If you have a clean example I would suggest giving it a good coat of wax to seal it from the atmosphere.
As I suggested earlier, the antique automotive forums are a good resource for handling the corrosion and arresting it.

BillWojo

 

[Nashou66]

Well , I really don't like how it looks as is . So I went and bought some Rustoleum Gold paint. I tested it on an old platter I had to compare how it looks to the original color, which to me, looks very faded
compared to other original photos of excellent examples of Empires . So I think I will paint the entire table and the outer platter as that has some pitting as well.


Some pics .

Here it matches the tone arm more closely than the top plate

Athanasios

 

[MRL_Audio]

metal shouldn't just disintegrate

A very well known problem with older Akai M8 & M9 pot metal cams. The cams are literally falling apart. Have a M8 and 3D printed cams saved the deck from the trash heap.

 

[45rpmspinner]

Well, I'm out.
Don't want to see what you're gonna do with the paint.
It'll just depress me.

 

[illf8ed]

Saw this on craigslist about an hour and some from me. Not the best shape aesthetically but the seller says it functions well. 480 clams, how did I do?

Would love to get it looking nicer. the gold finish is worn off in spots, tone arm needs some cleaning up. But not sure what parts are brass under the anodizing and which aren't. I have read in the big Empire thread the tone arm parts can not be taken apart to get them anodized .But has any one done this to the plinth?

What other advice should I heed once I find time to bring this back to a better state looks wise than it is now?

Athanasios

Saw this on craigslist about an hour and some from me. Not the best shape aesthetically but the seller says it functions well. 480 clams, how did I do?

Would love to get it looking nicer. the gold finish is worn off in spots, tone arm needs some cleaning up. But not sure what parts are brass under the anodizing and which aren't. I have read in the big Empire thread the tone arm parts can not be taken apart to get them anodized .But has any one done this to the plinth?

What other advice should I heed once I find time to bring this back to a better state looks wise than it is now?

Athanasios

Your’s looks like a 598 MkII by the logo badge on the back wall. Notice my MkI has a crowned “E” next to “Empire”. I bought mine about 4 years ago for a great price…$350 also from Craigslist.
It’s a bit gaudy, but a very nice sounding table. Mine came with a fairly low hour Pickering XV15 1200e cartridge.

 

[illf8ed]

My Empire 598 MkI

 

[Nashou66]

Your’s looks like a 598 MkII by the logo badge on the back wall. Notice my MkI has a crowned “E” next to “Empire”. I bought mine about 4 years ago for a great price…$350 also from Craigslist.
It’s a bit gaudy, but a very nice sounding table. Mine came with a fairly low hour Pickering XV15 1200e cartridge.

No mine is a MkI , its the 3 speed version. I believe the MkII and MkIII were only 2 sped.

Yours is in much better shape than mine. Tested the coating for continuity and there is none unless you press hared with the probe to break through what ever the coating is.

I may take the spindle cover plate to a pro auto paint mixing shop and see if they can make a color that matches it so @45rpmspinner might be a little less upset over this lol

EDIT: I wonder what he would say over this build !

Athanasios

 

[Nashou66]

After more research I found out that most likely Empire used a gold colored trumpet paint made my G.J Nikolas & Company.



Found a post on VE where the restorer used this and said it was a perfect match . Although he never posted any pics after and no more posts of his progress was made. So I'll buy this and do some test samples on bare aluminum. I may need some Alodine to put on the worn areas and black spots before the paint. It is a bit translucent with some gold color added, so not sure what the results will be for me.

Athanasios

 

[MisterDK]

No mine is a MkI , its the 3 speed version. I believe the MkII and MkIII were only 2 sped.

Yours is in much better shape than mine. Tested the coating for continuity and there is none unless you press hared with the probe to break through what ever the coating is.

I may take the spindle cover plate to a pro auto paint mixing shop and see if they can make a color that matches it so @45rpmspinner might be a little less upset over this lol

EDIT: I wonder what he would say over this build !

Athanasios

Athanaskos, as well as only 2 strobe patterns on the platter mat, I think the MK II and III versions may not have had the pop-up 45 adapter - but not certain.

 

[RickB]

DupliColor makes a "MetalCast" paint that transparently colors metals.

 

[RickB]

 

[Hobie1dog]

0000 steel wool worked wonders on mine.

Before

After

 

[Hobie1dog]

Let's see the results please.

 

[Hobie1dog]

After more research I found out that most likely Empire used a gold colored trumpet paint made my G.J Nikolas & Company.



Found a post on VE where the restorer used this and said it was a perfect match . Although he never posted any pics after and no more posts of his progress was made. So I'll buy this and do some test samples on bare aluminum. I may need some Alodine to put on the worn areas and black spots before the paint. It is a bit translucent with some gold color added, so not sure what the results will be for me.

Athanasios

Waiting anxiously to see the results.

 

[Hobie1dog]

This is when I first used the Rustoleum Metallic paint 8 years ago, and was very happy with it, but then the unit got put in storage and the paint turned dark as I recently wrote Rustoleum about it and they said ( it is not meant to be clear coated )and used indoors only. so now I'm getting ready to start again on it.

Here's a picture of when I first used it.

Before:

After:

Yours doesn't look anything like my older can.

 

[Hobie1dog]

After more research I found out that most likely Empire used a gold colored trumpet paint made my G.J Nikolas & Company.



Found a post on VE where the restorer used this and said it was a perfect match . Although he never posted any pics after and no more posts of his progress was made. So I'll buy this and do some test samples on bare aluminum. I may need some Alodine to put on the worn areas and black spots before the paint. It is a bit translucent with some gold color added, so not sure what the results will be for me.

Athanasios

The one you put up a picture of is the Clear. The Gold colored lacquer is a white can

 

[Hobie1dog]

Has anyone used lacquer thinner to clean a corroded plinth that still has some original finish on it? If the gold wipes right off that would be a big clue.

BillWojo

i have, and it comes right off so it's not an anodized finish. Being a trumpet player, it looks to be the colored spray finish.

 

[Nashou66]

The one you put up a picture of is the Clear. The Gold colored lacquer is a white can

Thats just the stock picture they used for the online store. I chose the gold option, lets see if they get it right

Athanasios

 

[illf8ed]

Athanaskos, as well as only 2 strobe patterns on the platter mat, I think the MK II and III versions may not have had the pop-up 45 adapter - but not certain.

You are correct. Although MkII some have three strobe rings while others have Two.
I guess the early MkI has the Empire logo with the crown preceding like mine.

 

[jcidave]

Nice acquisition. Hope you enjoy yours as I have mine for the last 20 years. This MKII has a little gold paint on the headshell part of the arm. Not a bad blend and I won't do anything else with it. This pic shows the OZ polish which was recommended right in the Empire owners manual copy I have. This has an Empire 999SE/X body with a JICO 1000ZE/X stylus.
I have polished the platter shaft and used a Thorens maintenance kit to polish the platter shaft bearings with Thorens oil as the whole assembly is very similar to my TD 160.
In my experience I would not recommend automotive oil products as they have higher moisture content. Again, enjoy your machine.