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Oil additives?

dgwojo said:
It's all year long, the suggested oil is 5w30, I've tried 10w30 as I didn't want to go thicker and possibly hurt the bearings,
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The difference is in cold weather. 10w30 would be a better choice than 10w40 but only marginally in the cold. In hot weather the heavier viscosity of the 10w40 will be less likely to migrate. In the summer you could even go to 20w50. That you've got no obvious place the oil is going is odd though.

:scratch2:
 
If you have motor oil in the intake manifold, either you have leaky valve seals or it's coming in through the PVC system. That often means excessive blowby.

Not all oil seals will work properly with Synthetic oil. Besides, there is really very little benefit to using synthetic oil in the typical passenger car or truck. Certainly not enough benefit to justify it's higher cost. Use the weight and type of oil recommended by the car manufacturer. They really do know what their engines need. In modern cars change it every 5 to 7k. If you do this, your engine will live a long and happy life.

You guys know that before too long this thread will head down the same path as discussions on interconnects and speaker wire.
 
Synthetic oil?

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but what is synthetic oil? I understand what the word means, but does this stuff start life as mineral oil that's then heavily modified, or is it a purely man made substance? I remember when it first came out, people were warned off using it on older engines due to it damaging oil seals, now on engines like the 1.9 JTD diesel used on the Multipla, it tells you to always use fully synthetic. One thing I've noticed is it doesn't seem to go black as quick as mineral oil does.
 
Synthetic and conventional motor oils are both petroleum based. So are a whole range of chemicals and plastics. The difference is how they are produced. Conventional oils are produced in a traditional “refinery” where crude oil is cracked into its component parts and then additives are blended in to give it the desired properties. The properties of the finished product are very dependent on the “base stock,” the actual crude oil used. The properties of crude oil vary tremendously from the preferred “light sweet crude” to tar like substances.

Synthetic motor oils are built up of components that have been processed to the point they are essentially just “chemicals”. All of the traditional characteristics of the base stock have been processed out. The blenders just chose the component parts that have the characteristics they are looking for and blend them together with the appropriate additive package.

This does have advantages. Synthetic oils have properties that are not found in traditional oils. But just because it can be a superior product does not automatically mean you will benefit from these improvements and it can cause problems.

If the vehicle system is not designed to use synthetic oil and you use the vehicle within it’s ordinary design parameters, there is little benefit but there is risk. Oil seals are designed with specific oils in mind. Using other oils or especially additives, can cause problems. If the properties of the oil are different, it may seep past the seal. This is what you typically see with synthetic oils. It doesn’t really damage the seal, it just can’t hold back the synthetic oil.

The bigger issue is the compatibility with the seal material. This is particularly an issue with aftermarket additives. They may not be compatible with the seal material and degrade the seal over time. In fact, some additives are designed to swell seals to give a short term leak fix. The seal is likely to fail totally at some point. Also, the swelled seal will put more load on the machined sealing surface and can, over time, increase the wear on that surface.

Synthetic oils will give you benefits if you are using the vehicle under very sever conditions such as racing or frequent and prolonged towing but for everyday use, forget it. It also may have some benefit to hide minor wear issues in something like a transmission, but it may also leak.

- Pete
 
Just one point and correct me if I am wrong, but Amsoil is vegetable based from what I have read.
 
LBPete said:
Synthetic and conventional motor oils are both petroleum based. So are a whole range of chemicals and plastics. The difference is how they are produced. Conventional oils are produced in a traditional “refinery” where crude oil is cracked into its component parts and then additives are blended in to give it the desired properties. The properties of the finished product are very dependent on the “base stock,” the actual crude oil used. The properties of crude oil vary tremendously from the preferred “light sweet crude” to tar like substances.

Synthetic motor oils are built up of components that have been processed to the point they are essentially just “chemicals”. All of the traditional characteristics of the base stock have been processed out. The blenders just chose the component parts that have the characteristics they are looking for and blend them together with the appropriate additive package.

This does have advantages. Synthetic oils have properties that are not found in traditional oils. But just because it can be a superior product does not automatically mean you will benefit from these improvements and it can cause problems.

If the vehicle system is not designed to use synthetic oil and you use the vehicle within it’s ordinary design parameters, there is little benefit but there is risk. Oil seals are designed with specific oils in mind. Using other oils or especially additives, can cause problems. If the properties of the oil are different, it may seep past the seal. This is what you typically see with synthetic oils. It doesn’t really damage the seal, it just can’t hold back the synthetic oil.

The bigger issue is the compatibility with the seal material. This is particularly an issue with aftermarket additives. They may not be compatible with the seal material and degrade the seal over time. In fact, some additives are designed to swell seals to give a short term leak fix. The seal is likely to fail totally at some point. Also, the swelled seal will put more load on the machined sealing surface and can, over time, increase the wear on that surface.

Synthetic oils will give you benefits if you are using the vehicle under very sever conditions such as racing or frequent and prolonged towing but for everyday use, forget it. It also may have some benefit to hide minor wear issues in something like a transmission, but it may also leak.

- Pete
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Great synopsis.
 
First real job in H.S. was pumpin' gas at a little independent station. Lots of the ol' boys used Motor Honey since it was basically the same as STP but about 1/2 the price. I was merely cracking wise about MotorButter...think it might have been from an old National Lampoon or something.
 
Great info LBPete! I ran into this problem years ago when I first added synthetic oil to my Camaro (90,000 miles) - it began to drink it heavily. However, I switched to Mobil1 in my LT1 engine in my Buick Roadmaster after its first 3600 miles and I had 287,000 trouble free miles from that wonderful engine! :)
 
dgwojo said:
I've also used Seafoam, works great for removing carbon from engines, the neighbors hate it because the engine smokes so bad right after the treatment!! Menard stores sell Seafoam for a good price, Dave.

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Ditto. Seafoam is great, both in the gas tank (fuel injector cleaner) and a cupful in the crankcase about 500 miles before an oil change. 10x better and less smelly than Sta-Bil as a fuel stabilizer too. I use it to put up the bike and lawnmower for the winter.

The only other oil additive I've used successfully has been Z-Max. It's the only oil additive that's been approved by the FAA for use in piston aircraft engines and has work great in my 1972 Norton Commando and high mileage Volvo 960 wagon. I use it in both the engine crankcase and gearbox and it's been effective in quieting down the tranny whine in both.
 
Yamaha1 said:
Just one point and correct me if I am wrong, but Amsoil is vegetable based from what I have read.
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I don't know but I doubt it. If it was vegetable based, they would be blowing that horn loud and clear to show how "green" they are. Castrol was at one time based on castor bean oil but I think that went away years ago.

- Pete
 
dgwojo said:
On a related note about additives, I have a 99 Ford Taurus with a 24 valve 3.0 Duratec, it has 155K on it now, I bought the car with 19k and from day one it has used a quart of oil every 600 - 900 miles, the dealer said the main seals are bad yet there's never a spot on the driveway, maybe it only leaks at highway speeds?? :scratch2: I don't want to drop mega bucks into a car with this many miles on it so additives were an option. A search on the internet about this problem suggested Auto RX as an additive, I tried a bottle of it, after 800 miles the oil level has not dropped at all, maybe this stuff actually helps, I have to leave it in for another 2200 miles per the instructions, it's an expensive additive but it will be worth it if I'm not dropping a quart of oil in every 600 miles!! I like this stuff so far, Dave. :yes:

Auto RX
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Checked the oil yesterday after 1900 miles, only dropped about 8oz, Auto RX - I'm impressed!! :yes: Unless of course it's just the switch from synthetic to conventional that made the difference?? :scratch2: Dave.
 
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