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Old CD player vs new DVD player

ChopperChas

ChopperChas

Super Member
I really, really like the sound of my two old Carver CD players. I have a DTL-100 and a TL-3100. But both seem to skip for almost no reason whatsoever. Even the slightest scratch or bit of schmutz causes a big skippy mess. And unfortunately my CDs are not all perfect and clean and scratch-free. I have a lot of used discs, and a lot of them spent time in my car during the in-dash CD player phase of my life.

All my CDs play fine in modern DVD players, or in my car CD player. They're just not liked by my old TOTL Carver CD players. My old Denon BPC CD player is much, much more tolerant, but still not as good as a modern DVD player.

Is there anything that can be calibrated to improve the Carvers? Am I better off with modern gear? The Carver sounds so much more lively and warm than the DVD player... but DVD also supports SACD and DVDA discs. Seems a no-brainer, except for how good the Carver sounds...

Thoughts?

Charles.
 
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ChopperChas said:
I really, really like the sound of my two old Carver CD players. I have a DTL-100 and a TL-3100. But both seem to skip for almost no reason whatsoever. Even the slightest scratch or bit of schmutz causes a big skippy mess. And unfortunately my CDs are not all perfect and clean and scratch-free. I have a lot of used discs, and a lot of them spent time in my car during the in-dash CD player phase of my life.

All my CDs play fine in modern DVD players, or in my car CD player. They're just not liked by my old TOTL Carver CD players. My old Denon BPC CD player is much, much more tolerant, but still not as good as a modern DVD player.

Is there anything that can be calibrated to improve the Carvers? Am I better off with modern gear? The Carver sounds so much more lively and warm than the DVD player... but DVD also supports SACD and DVDA discs. Seems a no-brainer, except for how good the Carver sounds...

Thoughts?

Charles.
Click to expand...

I`m going to go in a different direction but you asked for "Thoughts".

I would for go any CD player and would go in the direction of a DSD DAC. Not sure if you have given this consideration and it can be done for less $$ than an entry level audio CD player and you will get the sound that your after and much much more.
 
Have you tried one of the lens cleaning disks through your units - Memorex makes them for one. I once used that on a cd deck and got new life out of it.

Another little kludge fix that's worth a shot - put something heavy on top of the deck to help stabilize it. I have a jittery 90s SONY that was not reading cleanly. Stack two or three other components and it's fine for the most part.

Do the decks read very clean, scratch-free CDs OK?

The laser themselves are probably unobtanium but you could check and see what that spec is. Just in case that was a common unit and there are still replacements to be had. Swapping a mechanism out is sometimes not that difficult if you can get the part...

Good luck!
 
I've disassembled and replaced the belts and cleaned the lens in both of my Carver units. If the CD is perfect, it plays fine, all the way through to the end.

If the CD is not perfect, it will play the beginning just fine, but will start to skip in the later tracks. One seems to sometimes want to skip on the last track, even if the CD is really clean. Sometimes it plays fine.

Charles.
 
I had repaired many CD players what seems like years ago. A lot of skipping was cause by worn spindle motor bushings. The top bushing would become out of round and when the motor shaft it would jump to that out of round part the servo system could not compensate. The way I would check these dc spindle motors was with a Analog x1 ohm meter. The meter would supply enough voltage to turn the motor ( motor wiring completely unplugged). The motor with worn bushings would start to rattle if it was worn out. This will not with direct drive style motors.
 
To clarify the style of motors used. Even the brush motor is considered a direct drive motor system. So if the motor has just two terminals on it, is a brush style motor. The direct drive motor I was thinking about would be brush-less and may have more than two terminals to it. A analog ohm meter could not power it up. At times a drop of oil on the used bushing would provide a temporary fix. I tried to search for what kind of laser mechanism those Carver models have and found nothing. If you could post a photo of the spindle motor, I would like to know what it looks like.

I seen a few high end cd players with the same electronics & laser pick-up mechanism inside them and the original manufacture offered theirs at a lower price. The only difference was the outside front panel & the price.
 
You also might try re-lubing the rails the laser rides on. I have had a couple decks reduce skipping when I cleaned the old lube off the rails and but a dab of fresh grease down.
 
I had a problem with my Arcam skipping and it turned out that the old white grease that was on the cogs had gone hard and sticky stopping it from running smoothly so I cleaned all the old grease off re greased all the cogs and it hasn't skipped ones in two year since it was done
 
dogwan said:
You also might try re-lubing the rails the laser rides on. I have had a couple decks reduce skipping when I cleaned the old lube off the rails and but a dab of fresh grease down.
Click to expand...

More than once, this has fixed things for me.
 
dogwan said:
You also might try re-lubing the rails the laser rides on. I have had a couple decks reduce skipping when I cleaned the old lube off the rails and but a dab of fresh grease down.
Click to expand...
Do this the lube gets tacky just like a linear tracking turntable and will hang up the laser and cause this problem. Read the Laserology post good info there.
 
The main problem I've had with middle age players with the low torque/ low inpulse DC motors is dead spots on the commutator preventing reliable startup.
 
boytrytis, I also have that same model Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi. It replaced all my older Sony CD players and the Sony DCP7000 that I was using at the time. Excellent build quality and awesome sound. Just make sure you hook it up to your TV first with a HDMI cable to change it into 2.1 channel output. After that it is a great stand alone CD player. Very cool remote to.
ChopperChas, that Carver unit was a modded Japanese unit I believe. There is info on these players on "TheCarverSite".

BillWojo
 
[QUOTE="BillWojo, post: 9120771, member: 202221"
ChopperChas, that Carver unit was a modded Japanese unit I believe. There is info on these players on "TheCarverSite".

BillWojo[/QUOTE]

IIRC, most of the Carver decks used Yamaha or Denon transport/laser systems.
 
So I just compared a Sony NC555ES to a Pioneer DV610AV. The Sony was top of the line in its day.... and... well, the cheap Pioneer was very very close. The Sony was a dash smoother and ever so slightly more detailed. SLIGHTLY. The Pioneer tended to have a slight ringing on very loud passages, and the Sony did not exhibit this. That said, overall it was VERY difficult to tell them apart. We volume matched and blind A/B tested them, and they were very close. Close enough that I'm hesitant to swap the Pioneer out for the Sony. Will test against that Carver unit later too.

Charles
 
I find DVD players with SACD quite a bit.

I have higher end vintage CDP that perform well. Higher end vintage DVD that have excellent sound and newer DVD that work excellent for CDP.

I find more issue with the actual quality of the sound engineering on the CD more than anything.

Some CDs just suck!
 
So, almost a year later I come back to this thread and see something about the clamp. I note that the spring on the clamp on this deck is slightly stretched. Only a little bit, but noticeable. I haven't checked the puck material, but on a whim I loaded two CDs in the tray and pressed play. The TL-3100 would skip horribly if I tapped it or moved it even slightly - not just a single skip, but a smeared second-long skipityskipityskipityskipity. With two CDs loaded in the tray at once, it's MUCH more difficult to skip. I really have to yank on the player. Tapping it lightly doesn't cause skipping anymore. Tapping it hard causes only the briefest of skips. So... I'm guessing the problem is the spring, and possibly wear on the clamp. I'll bet that old DTL-100 has the same issue too.

Also, my TL-3100 had a weird problem, one of the rails pushed out of the holder and the lens assembly jammed. I reinstalled the rail and then glued the plastic stop back in place. It was originally just a friction-fit to keep the rail from coming out, and it was *very* easily moved aside.

At any rate, I just listened to a whole CD without a single skip, which this TL-3100 has never been able to do before. All from the clamping force. Thanks guys!!

Charles.
 
And yeah, turns out this deck is supposed to have two springs holding the clamp down. I had one, and it was stretched. I put a second spring on (found one from an old tape deck), and low and behold it works perfectly now. No problems whatsoever.

My DTL-100 however has a different problem, that deck still is more skip prone than any other I have, and it has nothing to do with the clamp. Ah well!

Charles.
 
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