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Old cd players

Whether CDs are in or out (still the dominant physical format), or whether LPs are in or out (approximately 2 percent of the music market?), is a hot topic that can spur long-running debates on some forums. I bought a Rega Saturn during this past year. That ought to say something about how I feel about the CD.

However - There's much to be said for using a computer as the source, instead. And it has nothing to do with MP3 files or playing music in your car. A quiet computer and a good DAC can achieve very high levels of sound quality. I run my PC through a PS Audio Digital Link III and play files ripped to FLAC, not MP3. The DAC can also support other sources, meaning I can get equally high fidelity from a rather modest DVD player by running it into the DAC. The world of the digital file has far more potential than the portability of the MP3 file.
 
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Does anyone manufacture a new CD player with direct entry numerical keys on the front panel so you can select a track number without a remote? And a remote controlled variable output? Features I use a lot on my old Denon players.
 
There has been more improvement in CD sound over the past 25 years, then likely any other source. Especially from 1990-2000. The big problem with a lot of older cd players is that lasers are no longer available, so you end up with very pretty paperweights. Ask me how I know.....
 
Ed in Tx said:
Does anyone manufacture a new CD player with direct entry numerical keys on the front panel so you can select a track number without a remote? And a remote controlled variable output? Features I use a lot on my old Denon players.
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I've seen recent Denon and Tascam models that have that.
 
Bob_in_OKC said:
However - There's much to be said for using a computer as the source, instead. And it has nothing to do with MP3 files or playing music in your car. A quiet computer and a good DAC can achieve very high levels of sound quality. I run my PC through a PS Audio Digital Link III and play files ripped to FLAC, not MP3. The DAC can also support other sources, meaning I can get equally high fidelity from a rather modest DVD player by running it into the DAC. The world of the digital file has far more potential than the portability of the MP3 file.
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Bigerik said:
There has been more improvement in CD sound over the past 25 years, then likely any other source. Especially from 1990-2000. The big problem with a lot of older cd players is that lasers are no longer available, so you end up with very pretty paperweights. Ask me how I know.....
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In the early days of DVD players I had a cheap Apex unit that I had hacked to be region free. The drive on it died. When I opened the lid of the unit I found it used a standard IDE DVD drive with the outer casing removed. Swapping the drive with a standard DVD drive worked like a charm. I guess in a perfect world all players would have such user serviceable parts.
 
staf said:
Im thinking a new cd player would have better electronics, design and technology. Or do old cd players sound better? let me know what you guys think.
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The key variable here is going to be whether you are trying to use the CD player simply as a transport or also as a DAC. As a transport, there is not a huge difference between players, as the task the player has to perform is very simple. It's just reading the info from the disc, and sending it somewhere else. It's not burdened with having to process or interpret that data at all, so there isn't much opportunity for the electronics to come into play. As a transport, it's just getting the audio, already encoded in PCM, from the disc to the Digital output, and ultimately to your external DAC (or the DAC in your receiver, preamp, etc)

If you are using the DAC built into the player then all bets are off. The DAC, being the point where the PCM signal from the CD is turned into actual analog audio, obviously has a huge potential to affect the sound. There certainly have been significant improvements in DAC technology over the years.

DACs only come bundled in CD players for the purposes of convenience, but the two technologies aren't inherently linked in any meaningful way. You can talk about how old CD players sound, but you're really just talking about how their built-in DACs sound. Once you use your own DAC it basically doesn't matter.
 
I'm in the new player camp because new will provide both better sound and long term reliability than just about anything one is likely to find used.

sculptura said:
No argument over the SQ you can achieve with an external DAC hooked to a computer using FLAC or MP3's etc. But I personally don't do FLACs, don't own a DAC, don't care about that. You're a very experienced audiophile who keeps up with the latest options and technologies. I'm not and I usually don't. It's not what I'm hearing, its the way I'm hearing it. It's the means I'm talking about. I like vinyl. I like CD's. I've become aware that we no longer need anything tangible. No vinyl or CD's or anything you can hold in your hands. That it's now possible to get a huge hard drive, transfer my collection, sell my records and CD's, download everything, get a DAC and some speakers and have an all digital system with a million files that sounds phenomenal. And it would be overwhelming and never get heard. The bottom line for me is that with all my digital files, I find I barely listen to those compared to how often I listen to CD's. Even if I had those bells and whistles, it wouldn't change my listening habits. Digital files have their place but they don't take the place for me.
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I used to feel exactly the same way, preferring by far tangible media over digital files of any sort. My eMusic account got cancelled for the very same reason. But...after a lifetime of eagerly collecting a large music library of LP's and CD's, I'm facing the realization that some serious downsizing must take place in a future that will arrive far sooner than I care to admit. Rather than have it imposed on me by circumstances out of my control, I began a semi-organized CD ripping program a few weeks ago, using EAC to do the FLAC rips. I started at the beginning and am working my way through the collection alphabetically. Occasionally I move an artist to the head of the queue when the mood strikes. Last night I began ripping my John Zorn collection and it will take a couple of days to finish converting it before I get back the the B's which are about half completed.

One of my sons has loaned me a nifty little digital media front end, the credit card sized Raspberry Pie which is an XBox platform device. I'm playing around with it while researching which way I want to go for a better sounding front end to handle the DAC chores in the main system. Until I get to that point, it's a lot of fun using my smart phone to queue up and play selections from the digital library.
 
Bigerik said:
There has been more improvement in CD sound over the past 25 years, then likely any other source. Especially from 1990-2000. The big problem with a lot of older cd players is that lasers are no longer available, so you end up with very pretty paperweights. Ask me how I know.....
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I have nothing but older CDPs, mostly due to the cost factor of finding something new of the same quality. The newest of the lot is perhaps 1994. So far nothing has died, but one of these days.....
 
Nad cd

I saw a NAD cd player at the local GW a year ago and passed. Later I found that the NAD's are supposed to be good compared to other older CD players.
I'll never know because it is gone.

Paul
 
i still use an old realistic CD 5000 cartridge changer from the eighties. it stopped ejecting the cartridge a short time ago so i relubed the mechanism and its working again. good idea though hitting the thrifts for cd players though.
 
sculptura said:
Even if I had those bells and whistles, it wouldn't change my listening habits. Digital files have their place but they don't take the place for me.
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I have a top end DAC that can serve up computer files all day long from an iPhone and I still listen to vinyl and CDs on a regular basis. I too prefer tangible items. Something I can hold in my hand and look at. Hell, I even listen to cassettes and love old tape decks. Reel to reel - pain in the rear, 8 tracks - now you've crossed the line. They will forever sound like crap.
 
I think that unless you happen upon a Sony SCD-1 or equivalent, a newer CD player will probably sound as good or better than an older one. There may be some older TOTL players that will sound better than a new "throwaway" Best Buy or Costco unitbecause of the DAC issue, but in general, I would scour the thrift stores with a CD in one hand so you can at least see if it powers up and spins the CD. I don't remember if headphone jacks were a feature on home CD players....but bringing a 1/4 inch/miniplug adapter and a set of headphones could also come in handy... Hey! I got a fun thing to do this weekend!
 
No, older isn't better with CD players, to a point. The best bet for sound quality on a budget is a TOTL unit from after say 1997 or a mid level new unit. The newest NAD players are fantastic. Early CD players are legendary for their terrible sound compared to what was available ten years later. And there seems to be another wave of SQ improvements going on now as what was in high end players, once it all matured, trickles down to the budget decks as the main market discards integrated players for computers/servers/DACs.
 
I bought my JVC XL-V151 off of the Bay for just over $20. I love that unit, it plays everything and sounds great. I believe that it was made in 1991. I would definitely recommend the JVCs of that era. And for $20 I wouldn't cry if it ever died on me.
 
Il stick with my Mission DAD7000, built like a tank, has no problems with cdr or cdrw as yet. Certainly got a few years under its belt. And I beleive it has the afforementioned Philips chip in it, sounds excellent :-)
 
Bigerik said:
There has been more improvement in CD sound over the past 25 years, then likely any other source. Especially from 1990-2000. The big problem with a lot of older cd players is that lasers are no longer available, so you end up with very pretty paperweights. Ask me how I know.....
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I have found an improvement in the sound quality of each cd player I have had to replace.

The lasars in all my previous cd players burned out. Some were replaced under the factory warranty but eventually burned out again like the original. This is one of the reasons why I would never purchase a used cd player.
 
That age old argument about old vs new is wearing thin. What it comes down to is how well designed the CD player is. The tecnology existed 20 years ago to make very good CDP's. Whether a company chooses to use it or not is another matter. My gut feeling is one of todays well reviewed $300 - $400 units should do a fine job and up to most vintage player except some of the TOTL Older unit's. My two older Denons, while hardly High end, sound quit good too. Certianly not offensive. I feel one of those new $300 - $400 ones would sound better though. I never heard one so can't say for sure.

No amount of Digital advancments will make up for a poor quality Analog Audio section. This is one reason some of those old Midle to High end CDP's sound so good. We can't reasonably expect the Analog section of a $300 CDP today to be up to the $1,500 CDP 15 years ago.
 
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Yep, the Denon DVD-5000 I have from over 10 years ago sounds better than its equivalently priced new unit (a few hundred bucks) but it might be an exception. It was a $2500 universal player with an excellent analog section. Some of the early SACD TOTL players still fetch a fortune, though, even thouh they're 10 or more years old.
 
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