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One for the Noobs: Turntables to avoid

fiddlefye

fiddlefye

Addicted Member
Every day it seems there is a thread here started by someone either wanting to get a start in analogue playback or wanting to get back into it after years away. They often come equipped with a list of possible tables and ask opinions about them. All well and good and I know the membership is happy to help out. How about a list of tables new or used to be avoided? We could maybe shorten up the initial hunt a bit before the lists get presented.

What I propose is not only to list the tables you consider to be "dogs" (my big hairy friend might object to the term) but why you consider them to be such and what issues they might have. All in the spirit of neighbourliness, right?
 
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Well, I don't remember the model, but I bought a used Technics table in college (not one of the high quality DJ tables) because I just wanted to play vinyl, and it sucked out loud. Light, plasticky, no way to adjust VTF or anti-skate. It might have sounded good, I don't know, it picked up the sound of someone walking across the floor in the next room and usually skipped at the same time. Threw it in the trash gladly when I got a better table!
 
Specifically, the ones that came top of a stacked-look one-piece all-in-one with a flimsy thin molded plastic platter. Some might include the BSR stacker/changers tho' these could do OK if the stylus wasn't worn out or mis-adjusted with heavy tracking weights or coins taped on to make a worn-out stylus play and thus ruining records.
 
I will be watching this thread with great interest.
If anything, a heads up to noobies like me about difference in cartridge styles on old turntables. I am currently stuck with a linear tracking technics with a t4p cart and its damn near impossible to find one of those things in a brick and mortar store.
 
N8Nagel said:
Well, I don't remember the model, but I bought a used Technics table in college (not one of the high quality DJ tables) because I just wanted to play vinyl, and it sucked out loud. Light, plasticky, no way to adjust VTF or anti-skate. It might have sounded good, I don't know, it picked up the sound of someone walking across the floor in the next room and usually skipped at the same time. Threw it in the trash gladly when I got a better table!
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Your problems may have been more circumstantial with a perfectly acceptable entry-level 'P'-mount TT and not with the TT itself as Technics never produced a decidedly lousy turntable under their mark.
 
nubskillz said:
I will be watching this thread with great interest.
If anything, a heads up to noobies like me about difference in cartridge styles on old turntables. I am currently stuck with a linear tracking Technics with a t4p cart and its damn near impossible to find one of those things in a brick and mortar store.
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There are lots of good 'P' mount cart options online, a real bargain being the entry-level A-T 92ECD. Brick-and-mortar stores tend to be a disappointment on carts generally due to low turn-over and limited sales. The LT Technics are generally some of the better common LTs in their respective classes.
 
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Too many variables to make a one-size-fits-all list.

Example: Any of the Dual 10XX-12XX idlers could either be a good choice or a bad choice for a newbie, depending on condition and the owner's commitment to making it work properly. If it's in unrestored "survivor" condition, it's gonna need a thorough cleaning/re-lube at the very least, and probably won't be a very satisfactory table until that happens. On the other hand, if you pony up for a reconditioned one from "FixMyDual" or similar, by most accounts you should have many happy hours of trouble-free listening.

Depends where you start and where you're willing to go.
 
Technics SL-20

I had one of these and it performed very well and I have one in my collection! Back in 76 I had the infamous Shure M91ed cart-it did a fine job!
 
In the list I'm not just thinking of the bad-sounding record shredders but also specific models that have frequently recurring issues, especially issues that involve unobtanium parts. One of the worst and most frustrating scenarios I can imagine for someone getting into "vinyl" is to buy what looks like a nice table then not be able to use it for any length of time because some long-gone IC has packed it in or some other small part that always breaks has gone south. There might be a lot of fairly desirable tables fall into that category and maybe ok for someone experienced, but to be avoided by the noob.
 
If I were to retrace my steps back through all the tables I have owned, I would avoid some of the more complex technologies like automatic, semi automatic, linear tracking, direct drive etc. and opt for a simple seventies manual belt drive with a switchable Technics style headshell. Not that semi automatics and automatics can't be great tables (Before anybody gets the feelings hurt), but there is more to go wrong down the road and more to check on at time of purchase. I always thought the PL-12's, PL-10's and other manual Japanese belt drives were a really great place to start.
 
noogies said:
Too many variables to make a one-size-fits-all list.

Example: Any of the Dual 10XX-12XX idlers could either be a good choice or a bad choice for a newbie, depending on condition and the owner's commitment to making it work properly. If it's in unrestored "survivor" condition, it's gonna need a thorough cleaning/re-lube at the very least, and probably won't be a very satisfactory table until that happens. On the other hand, if you pony up for a reconditioned one from "FixMyDual" or similar, by most accounts you should have many happy hours of trouble-free listening.

Depends where you start and where you're willing to go.
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Well said.:thmbsp:
 
noogies said:
Too many variables to make a one-size-fits-all list.

Example: Any of the Dual 10XX-12XX idlers could either be a good choice or a bad choice for a newbie, depending on condition and the owner's commitment to making it work properly. If it's in unrestored "survivor" condition, it's gonna need a thorough cleaning/re-lube at the very least, and probably won't be a very satisfactory table until that happens. On the other hand, if you pony up for a reconditioned one from "FixMyDual" or similar, by most accounts you should have many happy hours of trouble-free listening.

Depends where you start and where you're willing to go.
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Given my current experience with a 1219 (first Dual in about 40 years) I can agree. The great thing about them is that there is precious little on one that cannot be fixed, parts are available and it doesn't take huge electronics experience to work on one, more a matter of respectable mechanical aptitude. They sure can sound good with the right cart.

Not so much a "one-size-fits-all" list as a means of helping the less experienced keep their feet out of the worst cesspools.
 
fiddlefye said:
In the list I'm not just thinking of the bad-sounding record shredders but also specific models that have frequently recurring issues, especially issues that involve unobtanium parts. One of the worst and most frustrating scenarios I can imagine for someone getting into "vinyl" is to buy what looks like a nice table then not be able to use it for any length of time because some long-gone IC has packed it in or some other small part that always breaks has gone south. There might be a lot of fairly desirable tables fall into that category and maybe ok for someone experienced, but to be avoided by the noob.
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As much as I love my SL-xx00 model Technics, the 1400 MKII and 1500 MKII are notorious for mechanical faults. Never had one of those myself, so I can't speak for or against them, but every forum I go onto has people complain about it at some point.

But they're great tables otherwise...
 
I would just say to stay away from Crosley tables and their copy-cats, and ones that have plastic arm-tubes. Also, portables should be avoided.

There's no way we could list all tables to avoid. But its really easy to learn which table traits to avoid.
 
SL-1400 MKII and a few variants always have a broken arm lift it it seems. Repairing it is possible but difficult and I had mixed results. Its not a bad sounding table otherwise, though I much prefer belt drives in general, even with their potential speed stability issues.

Edit: Looks like someone mentioned the same table while I was typing this reply!
 
eurekaiv said:
Edit: Looks like someone mentioned the same table while I was typing this reply!
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I suspect that might happen sometimes. The ones with problems seem to crop up consistently and those are things for the beginner to know. Trouble and frustration can be the worst turn-offs going. I've always thought that simpler was better, but some love their creature comforts!
 
I don't think a Noobie should start with a B&O. It's not that they don't play well, they can be very good. But the learning/repair curve is very steep, the need to convert from DIN to RCA (one way or another), and the limited availability of cartridges at a high price point make them scary for low budget noobies. OTOH - a well cared for unit that is running nicely from an estate sale or something can take you well into vinyl SQ. But you'd have to be damn lucky on the acquisition ...

I agree on staying away from unknown condition DUAL's. Maybe as second table as long as the person has time to get them sorted while spinning with an other deck so they don't loose interest.

I prolly feel about the same for Oracle tables. Ecellent machines when sorted, but ... And I would not start a noobie with an AR XA ...
 
dualhead said:
If I were to retrace my steps back through all the tables I have owned, I would avoid some of the more complex technologies like automatic, semi automatic, linear tracking, direct drive etc. and opt for a simple seventies manual belt drive with a switchable Technics style headshell. Not that semi automatics and automatics can't be great tables (Before anybody gets the feelings hurt), but there is more to go wrong down the road and more to check on at time of purchase. I always thought the PL-12's, PL-10's and other manual Japanese belt drives were a really great place to start.
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True that. Less is more, at least from my perspective when it comes to turntables.
 
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